This week we’re talking about a conversion strategy for businesses who have sales calls with their customers.
In this episode, repeat guest Oli Billson joins us to talk about his Phone Funnel Framework™. He explains how he takes cold traffic and turns it into long-standing and loyal customers for service, information-based, and local businesses.
In this episode you'll learn:
- The types of businesses and benchmark product price point that the Phone Funnel Framework works best for The importance of qualifying leads before they come into your funnel and what to do with leads that don’t pass the test.
- Where to place the call scheduler within your funnel and why you should only be giving a 3-day window for scheduling.
- What to send before the scheduled call to increase your show up rate and warm up the lead.
Links and resources mentioned in this episode:
You're listening to perpetual traffic. Hello and welcome to episode two 21 of the perpetual traffic podcast. This is your host, Ralph Burns and not flying solo this week, but we have a special surprise guest for episode two 21 this this week and one that we haven't had on for about Oh 50 episodes or so, which is an awfully long time, almost a year since we've had this guy on. And now he is officially the most popular guest on perpetual traffic by at least 25% over our second place guest on perpetual traffic. So this week on episode two 21, we welcome none other than Mr. Oliver Billson. Greetings Oli, how are you? Gray things. It's an app. So they were on their last year of cool to be coming back on so many times. It really is. It really is. Well we should've probably planned this a little bit better because we actually had dinner together about two nights ago. That, I think, lasted only about 45 minutes cause you had to catch your train and, and thankfully and as per usual. And you know, because we have you on the show, you picked up the tab. So it's sort of expected from my perspective. But you know, I do appreciate that on the last, but me and Tom drank quite a few bottles of wine on that tab, so you should probably see that in your MasterCard, statement for this past month. So apology in advance for that, but really do appreciate the awesome dinner.
Speaker 2: (01:31)
Oh, well I'm becoming accustomed to this being on my credit card fairly, fairly a lot when we get together. So yeah, thanks for that. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: (01:41)
Oh man. Well anyway, last week's show on episode two 20 and this is something that I get questions about all the time. As we had actually mentioned at the end of episode two 20 a which was a talk that I had given at the digital agency expo, which Oli was there as well, delivering a lot of high value content in New York city is where does tier 11 get a lot of its paid traffic leads from? Obviously from here on the perpetual traffic podcast. It's certainly a great way for people to get to understand what tier 11 does, how we go about running ads for customers as well as getting results through our ads accelerator program, which is our done with you coaching program that Oli is actually helped us with our funnel with, but how do we actually use Facebook ads, which is something that we know a little something about to turn those Facebook ads into leads and then ultimately tier 11 coaching and or full service agency customers.
Speaker 1: (02:37)
And the way in which we do that is through this man on this week's episode through his funnel, which we spoke about this one way back, we couldn't even find it in Google. It was so long ago, a strategy Oli has invented and is now spoken about on stages all around the world called the phone funnel framework, which is hard to say really fast, but the point is is because there's a pH and there's a couple of F's in there. The point is is that it's a really effective way to turn cold traffic into a long standing and loyal customers, especially if you're in the service business, like we are here into your 11 as well as for local businesses. We're going to talk about that a little bit more and all these experience there and of course for information based digital businesses. So I think this framework here is something that Oli not only invented way back, but there's been quite a few iterations in a ways in which he's even improved it to make it even more effective to turn that cold traffic into customers. So that's what we'll be discussing here today. Really excited to get right into it.
Speaker 2: (03:49)
Yeah, excited. Dry off is going to be awesome dude, and really, really pleased to bring this information to you again, to go deeper into the phone funnel framework. And the reason why it works so well because I'm sure a lot of people that listened to the podcast, of course, they actually need to speak to people in order to be able to actually sell to them. And whether they personally as in the business owner actually needs to speak to somebody themselves or maybe they have a sales rep or they have even a sales team, everybody wants to be talking to people that are qualified people that are prior educated and that hopefully in a position to take advantage of your services. So really the whole point of the phone funnel framework is to predictably dependably reliably drive qualified leads from Facebook into good quality conversations, that, ultimately gonna lead to sales. That's it. I mean, it's, you know, I mean, I, I suppose this could work for lower priced products, lower price services, but typically these are for the types of services that have a high customer value, high average order value. You could probably do this for, you know, of course that sells for $79 or $29, but probably not the best use of resources. Cause we're actually talking about getting somebody on the phone to be able to sell them. So, this isn't for that type of business, but it could be bolted on, on the back end of the business where there is a lower priced product and then there is an upsell pathway as well. So I mean for the phone funnel framework, in your opinion and your experience, all the, and this is probably a good place to start. It's like what price point range should a, should a company or a business say, Hey, maybe that's something I should potentially invest in and go to Oliver billson.com and opt in and actually see what this guy's all about. So what of price point are we talking about here? And maybe explain the types of businesses that this works best for. Yeah, and actually it's the GRA is the best place to start actually because most people are, have a perception about the price that they sell at and the marketing process or the funnel that they should use in order to be able to get people to buy. Some people think to themselves, well, I'm going to have a highly automated funnel because I have a lower ticket offering. And quite honestly, what we found in literally working with hundreds of businesses and talking to thousands of businesses as well is the, actually if you have a price that's above around $600 it actually can still pay to have somebody do some form of, we can talk about the outreach qualification using the phone funnel framework, but actually leading people to, to a sales conversation before they actually bought it can actually still pay to do that.
Speaker 2: (06:58)
Meaning it's worth investing in the human to be able to have that conversation even at that price point. And what I would argue in wage Ja, is that even at that lower price point, the truth of the matter is is that, you know, people want to speak to people whether they're spending a couple of hundred dollars on say, getting their car windows tinted, which the phone funnel framework had worked well for me for the past 14 years in doing so. Or if they're spending a couple of thousand dollars on maybe booking some sort of training course, which again was one of my businesses where this all this was really, really well refined or whether it was selling something like an Eric exclusive franchise works extremely well for that. Or maybe it's a higher ticket coaching information based online leverage program works great for that as well. And so, you know, there's a real spectrum here.
Speaker 2: (07:57)
And of course one thing we know is if we're driving traffic for a B to C offer, then the costs they of doing that, in some cases can be a lot less dependent upon what you're targeting and what you're doing. And in some cases, some audiences are more expensive. On the B to B side, at the end of the day, where we all start with this stuff is really trying to understand what we're going to pay for a customer. And if we don't quite know that we want to understand what we're actually going to pay to actually have a shad yield sales appointment. Actually somebody on our calendar that we're going to actually speak to. And really when we understand what that's going to be, then we can kind of reverse engineer all the numbers, all the way down to even CPM costs if we want to, to kind of figure out what we expect to see as people flow through to us. So, you know, at first glance, you know, you might be thinking, well, would this work for me even though I've got a lower ticket price? Well the bottom line is if they need to speak to you in order to able to make that sale. Absolutely. And if you want an idea for how this could all be put together, then start with reverse engineering because that's a good place to begin a begin beginning with the end in mind as Stephen Covey would say.
Speaker 1: (09:12)
Absolutely 100%. So just to summarize, so $600 or more is sort of the average order value or maybe the initial price of that product, just sort of as a benchmark but more importantly, I think that parameter is that you sell a product that requires someone to speak to another person. There has to be a human, you know, one on one interaction which is with a lot of businesses and some of the ones that you had mentioned. First one being the car window tinting business was obviously a business of yours, which phone funnel framework has been sort of on autopilot for the last few years, which is pretty cool but that could also be, you know, potentially other types of local businesses. When we met in London we were talking about a customer of yours that was in the medical arena and this was actually being used to supercharge their lead flow and their new patient gathering for, you know, legitimate medical need. So it can go all the way to that and probably everything in between. Is there any sort of local business type where this would not work for that isn't $600 or more in value as a, have you experienced any sort of business that it hasn't quite worked with? Yeah.
Speaker 2: (10:27)
I think the distinction for anybody listening to this is that if you've got something that to service that doesn't really require a lot of pre education to make a decision, what it is that you actually sell, then probably not. You know, if you've got something that's kind of, it is what it is, you may have a USP, you may have, you know, some other guarantees perhaps that people may be buying too, but they're pretty much going to make a purchase and decision on a number of factors that are fairly clearly stated then probably not. But if you've got something that requires you to differentiate yourself from the competition and actually provide information in advance, that's going to actually educate the customer, then that's where we can use the phone funnel framework to use a video. And we're gonna talk a little bit about the, the pieces of this in a few moments, but these pieces are vital to be able to get people in a place where they're then going to actually set a sales appointment with us where obviously the Rossum services where that's not necessarily that necessary in order for those parts and pieces to be put together in the way that we described them.
Speaker 2: (11:43)
But for lots of people, especially these days online, there is an element of trust. There's an element of authority, credibility, sometimes expert status that's needed, absolutely required in order to be able to get people to say, you know what, I'm ready to take the next step. Got it. So yeah, so we were just, we're discussing local businesses, which is sort of one of the types of businesses that this type of funnel can be particularly effective with. You mentioned a training business. So for example, we have an agency that we just have an overflow of people who want to work with us but aren't quite qualified. So this is actually a very logical sales funnel for us to pass them through some training. And then qualify them into ultimately a training course and sort of an ongoing kind of almost like a hybrid between a training, an in a coaching course, which you also mentioned is high level coaching is another avatar potentially for the phone funnel framework and then also franchising, which quite honestly I don't think I realized that this could be used that way and it totally makes sense.
Speaker 2: (12:51)
We actually have a very large national customer that this would be an ideal solution for them because they sell franchises and then as part of that they help do a lot of their marketing, which then those franchises sell a fairly high end product. So if unfold fragment could be used all the way through on that. So obviously a franchise is something that's a much larger ticket item overall. Absolutely. Does it require a one-on-one, a sales call might require multiple sales calls at least. So I mean I think there's a wide variety of types of businesses that this is applicable for. Yeah, it is. And you know, one of, you know, where I spend my time right now at the next level, business.com is we have a lot of people that we help that are taking a business that they already have and they're extracting their knowledge, knowhow, expertise, skills, and essentially building an information education training or coaching business inside of their existing business.
Speaker 2: (13:49)
We call it building a business inside a business, which is something of course I've done quite well, over the past 15 years or so. And so when we teach that, we don't really, we have a specific model that is predicated on them selling high ticket online leverage programs. And those prices are typically between at the low end, $5,000 and $10,000 by B 15 in some cases and that's sold through getting people through the phone funnel framework. And when they do that, we can expect that those people are having those conversations will actually really convert to a customer they're in then and they'll actually be enrolled at this price point from those calls. So you can imagine there's a lot of heavy lifting that we need to do with the marketing and the mechanics and the phone funnel framework to actually get them.
Speaker 2: (14:49)
Then to the point that when they do have that enrollment call, that actually at a point where we're actually figuring out whether or not they're the right fit for us in the program. And I don't mean that in the sense of like, you know, some sort of salesmanship, but actually are they genuinely somebody can, we can help. And we probably already know that they are, because the phone funnel framework is not just about bringing people through. It's also about getting people through the hoops to qualify themselves for that call in the first place, which is really, really important.
Speaker 1: (15:23)
Yeah. So I mean you're qualifying people all the way through and we'll get into the block and tackle of it in just a moment. But I think it's important for qualification on both sides. So once they actually get to talk to a human being, if it's not a match on either side, then why have the call at all? Like they have to be qualified for your program or ready, willing and able to take the next logical step. But then also you have salespeople that are wanting to help as many people as possible and they have to make the best use of their time. So the qualification of this whole funnel is a really big part of it. And sometimes that means saying no to some people who think they qualify it, when in fact they don't. So, and that's, I think the beauty of this whole framework is that it sort of self-selects if it's done correctly.
Speaker 1: (16:12)
And like I said, it's like we're, we're doing this right now with our funnels and you know, some of this does take a little bit of massaging and once you start actually running traffic to it. So, but I think the most important thing is for people to wrap their head around, there is a way to actually do this. And this is obviously a model that you can emulate for your business or if you need more helpful, you know, tell you where to gain that help at the end of the show here today. So why don't we get right into it all. Let's talk about sort of the pieces of this whole puzzle the components, how they all kind of work together and ultimately to grow people's businesses through a phone conversations, one on one conversation. So how does it all work?
Speaker 2: (16:55)
Well, I think the thing isn't, and to put it into context of where we are at the moment with paid traffic and some form of sales funnel is that there are an abundance of different bits of advice that out in the market floating around from people telling you what you should do to fill up your calendar to fill up your appointments and so on and so forth. And cool. To be quite honest with you, I, I've heard a lot of different things that I don't necessarily agree with because a lot of them are predicated on things being largely very complicated. And in my experience, and I know we'll agree on this point, is that when things get complicated, they're very, very difficult to identify where problems are. And so what we like to do, and we're putting a lot of paid traffic through the phone funnel framework is the beauty of it is that it is very simple.
Speaker 2: (17:53)
So we have one traffic source which is Facebook advertising. This also works with Google advertising as well with with a number of different things as far as like click to text extensions. But I'm not going to go down that route because I think the majority of people listening to this are doing Facebook advertising and at least you should be. So it starts with one traffic source. And the other thing is what I love about using just one traffic source is that from an attribution standpoint of actually understanding what the, what is working and where it's working, you actually just get very clean metrics throughout the whole phone funnel framework to understand where things work, where they're not. So we have one traffic source. We have one educational piece, which we call the main event video, which we're going to come to in a few moments.
Speaker 2: (18:42)
And then we have one conversion mechanism which we call a discovery call. You in your business might call it a diagnostic consultation or maybe a strategy session and at that point, we're obviously having a conversation about bringing somebody on as a, as a customer so we have our traffic and ultimately we want to lead them into a sales appointment. We're very clear on the beginning and the end of this process and there are then a number of different pieces that we need to put into order to make it work and there is some psychology to why we do this and why it's also important, which will become quite abundantly clear as we go through this, but essentially there are two parts to the phone funnel from a traffic objective, which I think is important for those that are a little bit more advanced and have been trapped running traffic for a little length of time.
Speaker 2: (19:39)
Now they'll know the difference between you know, a conversion based objective, meaning it's an offsite conversion. You're clicking away from an ad, you're taking some fee away from Facebook on their mobile device or on their desktop and they are coming to a landing page and they are opting for some form of value. And typically the thing that we're promoting, optimal sorts of value, the thing that we are getting them to convert on initially is some form of case study is something that works extremely well for us, is really time tested, improve and in lots of different markets because it allows us to provide value in advance that shows what the problems were, where they were, what their current situation was, what their desired situation was, what they were, what was stopping them getting there and how the thing that you enabled them to do actually got them to, you know, solving that thing.
Speaker 2: (20:40)
I think you're using something like that right now, Ralph with yours and the is it in a health space? Yeah, it was a, it was a, it's pretty straight forward. It's a real proof piece of we know what we're doing and giving steps five specific steps as to how they can actually get the same types of results using a framework that we call and they're most people here on the podcast know this one is the e-comm ad amplifier. So, and it shows sort of the before and the after and basically teaches people like, yeah, you can do this on your own and let me show you exactly how to do it there is a lot of chunking information that's in the middle of it, like to help people show people that you can help them by actually helping them. So this isn't a fluff piece by any stretch, but it's one that we know has been proven in the past through lots of talks, lots of paid advertising in the past to have a great degree of interest to, to a wide variety of audiences.
Speaker 2: (21:37)
So it was strategic on, we pick this one in particular, but you know, I, I think you, you really have to think as a business like what's the best piece of content that you have to show people that you know what you're doing and that you can help them. The answer for us was this particular case study. So yeah, so you've got to have this, this value piece and showing results in advance obviously helps establishing authority, credibility, expert status and the other thing that goes around there. And then at the end of that piece, obviously getting them the opportunity to obviously don't schedule, which we'll talk about in a moment. Now I just mentioned that a conversion objective that there is advertising objective as being conversions. It's an offsite meaning, you know, they're clicking over to your own site and that works great sell on mobile and desktop.
Speaker 2: (22:22)
But we also have a second conversion objective as well, which we still use, which is the lead generation objectives. People know it as lead ads, where of course the lead ad form is popping up inside of Facebook and it has been pre-populated. I pace but with information that it already has. Of course if you've used those in the past, you'll agree with me that they're completely useless for collecting email addresses if that is the primary modality of following up with people because of course that information is quite old that Facebook has on it. But the one piece of information that's very good for us is mobile phone number because mobile phone number is generally a security mechanism and when we ask for that information from Facebook, it is generally very high in quality and we know that we can then use that to follow them up, not via email necessarily, but using mobile phones, their mobile phone with texting as the best delivery mechanism to connect with the device in their pocket.
Speaker 2: (23:25)
So I mentioned that the phone funnel framework can actually go in two ways. It can go as a conversion objective from a, from a traffic standpoint or a lead generation objectives with lead ads. But primarily once we're driving people towards our main event video, we're actually getting them after they have opted in. We use a hook that you would obviously have on the, on the landing page there, we actually use something that's like a 24 hour or 48 hour pass. And the reason why we use that is because we want people to consume that information and know that it's actually really good quality information, you know, leading with your best or first and knowing that there's some scarcity around that being premium content, which certainly for us and a lot of our clients it usually is. So, you know, getting that opt in and using a strong hook on there is important.
Speaker 2: (24:22)
So we get the lead. But this is the thing that starts to differentiate, you know this from a usual kind of VSL funnel of types is after they've opted in, we don't actually push them into the main event video because it's too quick. We don't want to just rush people into a 15, 20, 30, 40 minute video that they've got to sit through what we want to do is actually slow them down in the process and actually just resell the benefits to them of the reason why they actually opted in in the first place. And that is a barrier almost that we're putting a pink in some cases in these early stages. Actually you could say this qualifying to some degree, but for those that are interested, we're also pre-framing what it is that they're just about to watch. And so we have a very short video, usually between three to five minutes that says, you know, congratulations, you made a smart decision to opt in for the ad amplifier framework.
Speaker 2: (25:32)
For example, my name is Ralph Burns and I'm super excited to share this premium training with you where I'm going to go deep into. And then you know, the points in the, the main event video you're going to go through and you're going to want to stick around to the end of that video because I've got something very special that I want to give you. And then we tell them the next step is to click the button below to obviously go and actually watch it. And for those of you who have been around for any length of time, you'll also know that if you're getting people through these stages, there's this influence factor of the commitment and consistency for them to continue the path that you're asking them to go down. So that gets us now from the, what we call the prime of video, which is priming them for now watching this main event video.
Speaker 2: (26:27)
And the main event video is going to be the education piece as we've already talked about. And it's going to give them the information that they need about their problem, challenge, fear, frustration, and how you've helped somebody out solve it and why it's worked, how it worked and what they can do in order to make it work for themselves and really give them two options. You know, option one is, you know, can go out alone and try and figure it out yourself. Or option two, we may be able to help you and we'd like to invite you to actually booking a call with us and whatever you may call that call is up to you of course, but let's say it's a discovery call and we ask them to actually apply. And so the framing of it is either do you qualify or would you like to make an application?
Speaker 2: (27:20)
And we then lead them to actually going through a process of qualifying themselves with a short little quiz questionnaire, once they take action on that. So just to summarize, single source of traffic obviously helps with attribution. So in most cases, this is Facebook ads, then they are sent to an opt in page. This can also be done through a leader, but I think we're really talking more through website conversion as at least at this time, which is obviously including the reserve, my 24 hour pass. So straight opt in page. Then once they give their name and email, I assume that's pretty much all that's required at that point in time, Oli? That's correct. Yup. Yup. Then they're immediately sent to the primer video. So the primer video then sort of gets them ready and resells them as to why they took the previous action.
Speaker 2: (28:20)
And also a little bit of an open loop as to what they're going to learn once they actually click the watch now button, which is typically below the video. And then that's when you deliver what's referred to as the main event video. And that's where the real education, the real love happens. And then at the end of that as sort of a transition to a, you know, can we help you out with this? You can certainly do this on your own or you know, do you need some help and kind to the next step. So is that pretty much summarize it? Is there any variation that you would use overall? Yeah, there is. There is actually one part of this where I'm big on, you know simplifying this, but that is a slightly advanced variation which you actually use in your business, which also is quite pertinent and relevant to perhaps people are listening and if they have multiple tares of products or services that they offer, then there is some criteria for what we can ask some information to profile people before they actually watch the main event video and before they go to the prime of video.
Speaker 2: (29:30)
And so for you, that kind of book gets people into a few different parts and I wouldn't book it people into more than three profiles, depends upon what you do and if you have the time to record multiple videos and that's fine. But basically when they opt in for that 24 hour pass on these main hook that we've got, so we're not dynamically changing the text on the landing page or anything like that. But what we are doing is when they opt in, we're asking them a simple question, which allows us to then segment them at the front, tend to profile them, and then based upon that submission of that web form, then they can be split off into three different prime of videos actually that then pre-frame the main event video, which are three different main event videos that deal with the specific pain that somebody might be in at that particular stage of business.
Speaker 2: (30:24)
Or maybe in like one of my businesses actually I've just sold, I keep saying one of my businesses, but one of the businesses that I've just sold, we were selling a business opportunity for people and we wanted to know whether or not they wanted to start a business part time, full time was a bolt on to what they already do. Well those are three different avatars, three different personas. They were three different main event videos because the testimonials that overcame the objections, the opening to it, the, even the product that's actually been demonstrated that is very different for each of those different things. So we can actually use this in more of an advanced way by segmenting them if we wish, but ultimately they're still going through the same, same process to get as to why we want them to, which is making an application and I'm answering some questions and then of course booking a call with us.
Speaker 2: (31:18)
Got it. So the main event video, which is sort of the, the part that we sort of left off, which then takes them to the questionnaire. Does the booking page happen first or does the questionnaire happen first after the main video? Like what's your rationale for which one comes first? And maybe we can get into that? Yeah, absolutely. Great question. And we've tested this a lot and this is what we advise when you first getting started and your, you know, your diary is a little emptier than you'd like it to be you're trying to fill up a sales reps calendar, for example, or your own, appointments from your main event video what we like to do is actually put the calendar, the shadier Uhler, whether it's Calendly, [inaudible] acuity, whatever you use that syncs with your calendar to look for availability. Actually put that first.
Speaker 2: (32:13)
So that means that they'll go from the main event video to actually selecting a date and time that suits them to speak with you first. That is really very low friction. And obviously there is a much higher conversion rate from that to them actually going to shag you. And then once they've scheduled, they then go to a questionnaire. And what that's going to give you is it's going to give you a lot more people by shackling with you, which is good. And again, that commitment and consistency for them to continue and give you, you know, that qualification information. And then of course you always speak to people that have actually qualified and given you their information. So in the early days when you're looking for more calls, that's the best way to do it because even if somebody doesn't give you that qualification information, which by the way, you know, there's different levels to this.
Speaker 2: (33:06)
When you first start, you'll probably still try and reach out to the people that are scheduled but didn't actually ma do the application. When you first start, then you'll get busy, then you'll be like, right, I'm not speaking to anybody that hasn't completed the qualification questions. And then then you'll even go to the third step, which will be right. They shuttled, they complete the qualification questions, but there's something on the actual qualification form that I don't like the look of and I'm going to disqualify those people before I actually speak to them. And then finally, the fourth step is actually we're getting a lot of throughput here. We're getting a lot of prospects where really are getting filled upon our calendar before we have time to hire more people. We want to get more quality, right? Let's put now the questionnaire in front of the call calendar. And that's what we do ourselves. And it's, you know, when you're driving a lot more traffic and that's what we advise because we have this, there's little quiz questionnaire that works really well before it.
Speaker 1: (34:08)
So how many questions? So I think that is an important point, so this is really, this is getting deep into the funnel here. I think everything up until the VSL is you know, fairly, it's fairly straight forward. I mean there's a lot of people that do this. I mean we're used to seeing lots of businesses that do this. The businesses that we look at day in and day out. The big part of this is the qualification like we had referred to in the opening of today's episode and it, the point here is that when you're first starting, get the appointment right after the main event video, but then as you become a little bit more knowledgeable about what types of people are coming through that funnel, perhaps put that questionnaire or in your case it's almost like a quiz funnel or maybe a full on questionnaire and then from that questionnaire you can even send them to different schedulers potentially based upon how they answer those questions. Right.
Speaker 2: (35:01)
We do that actually. That's what we do. When you got to the point now of doing profiling and segmentation on the back actually of the prospects. Then for a more sophisticated sales team, you may have people that are more lead development reps versus actual, you know, advisors of your particular program or or or service or you've got a set or you've got closer, the lower quality leads might go to a specific team. And what they may do is they may not be booking a 45 minute call. They might be booking a 15 minute triage call. And the whole idea then is that lower quality lead gets triaged very quickly and then that poison books and appointment for another salesperson and, and that, that's a little bit, you know, that's a little bit more granular, but I think some people would like to hear that.
Speaker 2: (35:54)
But the other thing that we do is if there is an out and out, like this person is absolutely somebody that we shouldn't be speaking to and we have this and often a, we have a little thing that says, you know, how do you see education? Do you see it as a cost or do you see it as an investment? What's your approach to learning? I'm coachable and I want to invest in, I believe in investing in my future or I want to add this product to my collection. They're like silly questions that we have at the front because anybody that's crazy enough to obviously say that they're not coachable is, is not something that we actually want to speak to. And somebody that thinks that they see investment as a cost rather than an investment that doesn't work for us either. So before we even get to that point in the funnel, in the quiz, we actually just spit them out to another page that says, Hey, this isn't going to be right for you.
Speaker 2: (36:46)
However we actually have these products that may serve you and this is what it's about. And that then is an autonomous sale or there's some other funnel that they're going into to educate them about that. Or you know, automated product that they could buy that isn't going to require a salesperson to speak to them. Got it. So that really is a key qualifier at that stage. I mean you, you know, in most cases, I mean, like you said in the beginning, you can't make this too complicated, but it depends on what type of offerings that you have. I mean, if you do have that information down sell versus the, you know, the high ticket coaching, obviously the question and how they answer those questions is super important because you want to be able to utilize your resources and your business as best as you possibly can.
Speaker 2: (37:34)
So, but it's interesting to hear that, you know, when you're first starting with something like this, you just want to run as much traffic through it as you can or as, as reasonably, you know, within like KPI within your key performance indicators as you can to understand how it all flows and really look at your Facebook data and set up, you know, in our case we have very specific parameters for each conversion all the way through from lead to to book call to finally completed registration. And then back ending that if you do this at scale is trying to optimize for the result that you really want, which is ideally in this case, not just cheap leads but leads that actually lead to a one on one interaction. You know, something that can actually further the sale using a salesperson depending on which product that you actually have. So this is really important stuff sort of downstream. And I think this is where your funnels are very different than a lot of other people's that are on the market right now. And others that you know are a little bit more one size, all this is malleable. It really can be adjusted based upon your current service offerings, your business at the time as well as you know, your budgets for paid advertising. So it's a really flexible way of approaching a gathering new business for sure.
Speaker 2: (38:50)
Yeah, absolutely. And we can talk about the money maths actually in a, in a, in a few moments because I do think that's important for people to understand as well. Like how do we set our stall out with reverse engineer? I talked about that earlier of actually getting clear on what we actually see to be a positive result and being able to understand that each step like what's converting and wow and where do we need the, you know, the numbers to be in order for them to work. But before we do that, I think one thing is really important is it's okay getting appointments is okay even getting qualified like prospects, but we actually need them to actually show up. We actually doing all this stuff. Yeah. We actually need them to actually get on a call. And when they get to the call, guess what we want them to be.
Speaker 2: (39:34)
We want them to be pre armed and able to make a decision and they know what we've got. They know what it will do for them. And you know, the framing is set up in the right way. So when they actually book, we actually have another video that happens after they booked a call, which again reaffirms the prior positive action that they've taken. I've, I've been saying that throughout the whole thing here. We did it in the prime of video. You made a great decision. They watch the main event video. The first thing they hear is that you made a great decision. They book a call, you made a great decision. And then what we do is we, we, we are very, very specific and say in a few minutes you're going to receive obviously confirmation from us that your call has been successful and it has been booked on our calendar, which is great.
Speaker 2: (40:25)
And I just want to let you know that we also don't do reschedule to these calls. So if you don't show up for some reason and we know that that can sometimes happen for some reason, please let us know if that's the case. But if you book a call and you don't show up, we don't actually do reschedules. So that's something that we do because even people at this point, we want to really increase our show up rate as high as it possibly can do. And we actually have it where some people will be like, you know what, actually I thought that this was something that I really wanted to do, but actually I don't want to waste your time. And in doing so, which is helpful, the positive or negative that is also explaining how the calls actually going to work. And I'm explaining that we truly actually care about them as a, as a potential customer.
Speaker 2: (41:17)
And the purpose of that is to find out whether or not this is really a good fit for you or not. And, and that we're also gonna send you some other information before our call, which is going to give you some more information specifically about the things that we do to help our clients get great results like we've shown you already. So this is a great opportunity to, to then jump off from that to then sending further information, not just reminders to show up to the call, but always leading with value before the call. So once they've watched that video, they've obviously got the reminder to go and show up and they've got the, you know, the calendar invitation. But then we have a specific piece of content I'm going to classify it for the majority of people that are listening. It's like a demo, like a demonstration video.
Speaker 2: (42:11)
So if you sell an online education program, which most of the people that we work with that next level business do, then we can actually showcase what's inside the learning management system. We can show them that we, how we support people, what the communities like, what the culture is like, what our values are, like, what are some of the, you know, the experiences that other people have had and send them back there. We can pepper that with different testimonials and lace it with successes of other people so that when they're showing up to that call that, you know, they're forearmed with actually what other people have got just like them out of our particular type of program as well, which is, which is great. And we even go as far as to send before the call and actual book of testimonials, an actual PDF that's 30 odd pages long of testimonials as well.
Speaker 2: (43:04)
So they kind of getting different things before that call that are not just interactive like a video, but also, you know, there's a couple of PDFs, a few to read. They're also getting some text messages to get them to show up as well, you know, quite casual, but they get a message from their rep that's, that's reaching out to them at that time. And, you know, it works really well to, to increase the show up rate. Yeah. Which is the key. So on that, that final sort of thank you page, is there any action for the person to take at that point in time or it's just sort of a re affirmation? Once again, you've made a decision, we now know where you are. That's basically where it stops. Then it's taken over either to text, email, sort of the, the way in which you guys do the followup to make sure that they actually show up for the call, that they're prepared for the call. Like, is there anything in addition.
Speaker 1: (44:00)
I'm going to do my best because you know that I've got one of these weird memories. You know me quite well unfortunately. So it goes a little something like this and this is completely off the cuff, but I'm just going to say it how it is. Okay. So Hey is Oli Billson here. If you see in this video, congratulations, you made a smart decision to shag. You'll a discovery call with either myself or a member of our team in this quick video, I've got a few things to share with you so you know what to expect and how the process is going to work so that you can get the most out of it. First off, you scheduled a call at a specific date and time. That's when we'll be speaking together. You don't have to call us. We'll be reaching out to you at the exact minute that you scheduled for a, so make sure that you're ready to take the call.
Speaker 1: (45:41)
And if you are more than five minutes late, we actually go ahead and cancel those calls and we don't do reschedules. So make sure that you let us know in advance if there's an issue of any kind. And we ask them on the qualification like do you want a call through Skype or all that over the phone so we say we'll call you as you wished and then you want to make sure that you in a quiet place distraction free for the call and we've got your full undivided attention. And we don't take calls from people that are driving or on the train or anything like that. We just let them know that. And then finally we take these calls very seriously because we want to properly understand your business and accurately diagnose what's holding you back and whether or not we can actually help you get to where you want to be or not.
Speaker 1: (46:27)
A lot of this language is quite important. And then if we believe we can help you, we'll be very honest with you. And, if we believe that's the case and you have the right profile, we may give you an opportunity to enroll in our program and get started right away. So that's pre-framing the fact that we may give them an opportunity to make a decision there and then and say, you know, that's it for me. I am also going to send you some valuable information before the call, which I want you to go and check out. There's a demonstration of how the program works and what are the results of the people who have got and of course I look forward to speaking with you soon.
Speaker 2: (47:49)
There you go. That's pretty good. I think we've got some podcasts, listeners and my throw that section into rev.com to have it transcribed. I've done it a few times.
Speaker 2: (48:01)
Yeah, apparently you have that was off the cuff ladies until there's no edits in that one, which is pretty good because we edit this podcast a lot to make us sound smarter than we really are. No, I mean I think that's, that's great. Like you're really pre-framing somebody. The point is that you're spending your time if it's you or your sales, but you're also spending their time, you want it to be quality time where you're actually helping get a shared desired end result. And I think you know, that step is a vital step with regard to, it's a critical step actually because it sort of cements everything that you've already discussed. Just block and tackle things like when you're looking at scheduling and actually booking the call itself. Logistically obviously, you know, you drastically increase your chances of connecting with a potential prospect if you can interact with them or at least talk with them in a very short period of time. I mean the statistics that show that under five minutes, under 10 minutes, as soon as they put in the lead form, it's like if you've got a salesperson that reaches out to them and talks to them in 10 minutes or five minutes, you know, they have a 10 X better chance of actually gaining a level of engagement, whether that be closing a sale or at least moving the sale forward or advancing the sale forward. So when you're booking these calls with your sales person or with, if you're a business owner, you obviously you don't want to schedule it out for like two weeks from now.
Speaker 1: (49:48)
Like do you have any sort of limitations as far as that's concerned? Yeah, that's a great question. And it's a mistake a lot of people make because they're like, well, if I open my calendar up, then I'm probably going to get more bookings. And that's not what you want to do because the further out people are from them being in that point of moment then you know, the colder they're going to get and life obviously gets in the way. So our advice usually is to not let the calendar go out more than three days if maximum four days, but three days, get your calendars filled up to the maximum eight scheduled calls a day on the hour, every hour. And that's what you want to be doing that's how you want to set your scheduler for as well. No more than three days in advance on the hour, every hour, that the calls are being made.
Speaker 1: (50:37)
And that if they're a 45 minute call, gives you all your sales rep 15 minutes, both the time in order to be able to, if you go over on one, you know you've got another one on the hour. So that really works. And the really the money math saw, you know, you want, you know, eight scheduled calls a day and you want like a 30% close ratio from those leading into a, you know, high ticket program. And that's what we do every day. And then, you know, if you need to back the calendar out, maybe a little bit more to, to open up some more slops then maybe go to four days, but try and keep it to three if you can three and have it on the weekends. How do you deal with, it? Depends if it's a, if it's a B to C thing or a B to B thing, if you're, you know, for, for one of our businesses, the one that I just sold was a, you know, a B to C offer.
Speaker 1: (51:27)
So actually what was great with that is we had a rep that could work at the weekends. That was actually the time where we actually had the most demand for bookings because of course it wasn't in the day when other people have that job to do and they didn't want probably their boss around when they're having a conversation about, you know, starting their own business. So, you know, doing the weekends, that's totally fine as well. And I think, you know, a lot of businesses, even business owners, you know, would say that they could open their calendar up, you know, Saturday mornings even. I mean, I've got somebody in my mastermind right now who, they are so busy, you know, on a fairly moderate modest ad spend from Facebook. And they're at, with them doing the sales calls, they've got to just over $130,000 a month from selling the program.
Speaker 1: (52:18)
And so they're the only person selling that, only using Facebook that only using the phone funnel. And they have an online leverage program that we taught them how to put together. And like he's running his own Facebook ads, he's running this community and he's closing and that's it. And now he's kind of maxed out and obviously probably about 30 grand ago, he probably could have been thinking about getting another wrap in there. And so, you know, every rep then should be sort of doing, you know, obviously it takes some time to get people up to speed but it should really be doing probably 70 to 80 thousands a month, you know, sort of a high ticket sales. Like, you know, he's selling it a $5,000. So you know, that's good numbers and good profit. And the, the big thing that we haven't, we haven't really talked about here is the, the, the money maths works so well like this, the, when you reverse engineer it, if you are selling something high ticket like that, and I don't want to just focus on high ticket, but if you are, and you want an affordable way to do this and profitable way to do this, you've actually got margin.
Speaker 1: (53:26)
You've actually got margin to actually spend money on ads and know that it's costing you 140, 150, $160 to get a call and you've got 20%, 30% close, right? Gosh, we know what we can spend to acquire a customer. Right? And you know, that's what it's all about. The cash flowing of the whole thing.
Speaker 2: (53:46)
Yeah. I mean, it's going to be different for everyone. And then obviously like the pricing of this and obviously what your cost of goods sold is. I mean, if it's a digital product, that's the time that you've put in, but at the end of the day, it's, if there's no human intervention with the delivery or, of the product itself, that's, you've got more potentially to play with. If you have a sales person that you're paying commission on, that's obviously cost of goods sold that goes along with it as well. Or if you have like a physical sort of, you know, component to it that is going to cost your business money. Obviously with the local businesses that we talked about, there is a cost of goods sold for car, window tinting or you know, medical services. So you really sort of have to back out the numbers, but you can reverse engineer this pretty quickly and figure out where the potential breaks are.
Speaker 2: (54:35)
And, that's one of the things that I love about this type of framework is because, you know, when it comes back to it, the thing that's powering this, chances are probably Facebook ads. So the more you know about that kind of stuff, obviously there's 200 plus episodes that you can learn how to do that. But here's everything that's after the click to sell something off cold traffic to a high average order value. And you know, when we say, you know, Hey, we can get leads for dollars on Facebook and sell thousands of dollars worth of product to cold traffic. It doesn't happen just because of the brilliance of the Facebook ads. Yeah, I'd like to think that that has something to do with it. But a lot of this is really after the click and this is the kind of stuff that we're talking about here.
Speaker 2: (55:07)
It's so effective and it can be used for so many different types of products. But then again, you got to know the math. You know, at the end of the day you don't want to be running this and just not really paying attention to all the steps all along the way from ad spin impressions. You know, what you're paying for a calendar, actual booked call and what sales are based upon those booked calls. So you want to keep an eye on everything and I'm sure you know, you do like we do, we keep an eye on every aspect of these numbers and really manage them, very effectively.
Speaker 1: (55:51)
Yeah. The other thing is as well to talk about, and it's important to mention, we're talking about the money. Maths is also time. Time will kill you. Like cashflow will kill you. And so when you spend money on Facebook, you can't pay Facebook with revenue. You can only pay them with cash. Right? So what you've got to think of is like, how long is it taking me by putting something like the phone funnel in place, we're actually gonna shorten our lead to buy a time down significantly than going with another type of option that involves us having to take people through, you know, a whole load of different things, to get them into a point of having a conversation with us where we can take somebody cold, from paid advertising into a core, in fairly short order, recuperate our money from doing the right things in the right order, that we've spoken about, and then reinvesting that money back in, to paid advertising to go again because we don't go into what we call a cash flow trench. Okay. So we're not having to weather a storm of going negative before we come positive for too long. We can actually get our money back quite quickly. Yeah, it makes total sense. Well, this, this has been awesome, man. I mean, I, I know that, you know, there's been a lot of people that have, have implemented this on their own. You've helped implement you obviously you have, you run both an agency as well as teaching people how to do this kind of stuff, growing their businesses.
Speaker 2: (56:24)
Yeah, a lot of different types of customers. I think what we've outlined here, but this is a malleable framework that you can adopt for your business and it really does make sense fundamentally is that you know, if you're going to be selling a high ticket offer or anything over $600, okay, let's sort of our benchmark, whether you're a local business all the way up to high end coaching and everything in between. You know, a framework like this, you don't necessarily have to implement it exactly the way that we're talking about here, but the idea is that this is multiple touch points that are logical in their sequence to get people to make the ultimate decision, which is to purchase the product and to get the next level benefit after maybe the types of benefits that you've taught them in the main event video. The next logical sequence is like, Hey, you can do this on your own or you can get our help to do it.
Speaker 2: (57:12)
We've got a couple of different options and it's a logical sequence to ultimately turn cold traffic into lifelong customers. So all a man really appreciate you coming on today and bring in the goods. If people want to learn more about you and what you do and the phone funnel framework, how should they connect with you? Yeah, sure. So, if you'd like to find out more about this stuff, you should go to the next level, business.com forward slash schedule. So next level, business.com forward slash [inaudible] we do offer complimentary discovery calls, for you to speak to either myself or an X level business advisor we can talk a little bit about your situation and of course you'll actually go through a little bit of this process when you do that. And, then we can find out more about you and what's going to be the best fit for you of how we can help. So a next level, business.com for slash schedule. Awesome. Well, great having you on this week. We will have a number of different resources inside the show notes here on the podcast as well as links to previous episodes that Oli's been on. Episode one 50 and one 70 check those out and obviously this has been episode two 21 this week of the perpetual traffic podcast. For all the resources, go to digital marketer.com forward slash podcast this has been episode two 21 thanks for listening this week, Oli. Thanks for coming on and until next week, see ya.
Speaker 2: (58:06)
You've been listening to perpetual traffic. For more information and to get the resources mentioned in this episode, visit digitalmarketer.com forward slash podcast thank you for listening.