Speaker 1: (00:01)
Hello my friend and welcome did the sales podcast on where shape for the sales whisperer, your host today. We've got a good friend of mine, Oli Billson, all the way from the UK. He put off his pub crawl to spend time with us. That's how good of a guy he is. Now, Oli shares how he started as an entrepreneur at age 15. He built up a business that he still runs with 175 franchisees and then how he spun off his own marketing agency with 29 staff, 16 core people and how he's helping, grow his own business by helping others do the same and he shared some great insights and you are in for a treat as I've mentioned in the last several episodes, check out the dig deep offer. It's a way to spend one on one time with me to quickly dive into your business, your goals, what's holding you back.

Speaker 1: (00:56)
Figure out a course of action so you can move forward aggressively. One of the things you'll hear Oli talk about in this interview is speed. You know, how quickly do you want to grow? And money does love speed. And I think the thing that holds us back quite often is just that uncertainty. You know, I took my, my 19 year old son and his girlfriend and the driving range yesterday, and he's never really golf, never been into it. So we had fun and I was getting some pointers and, you know, he's making all the mistakes you make when you're brand new, but it just reminded me how being indecisive in golf is when I make my worst shots. You know, it's like, well, is that, is it a hard aide? Is it an easy nine? You know, or vice versa.

Speaker 1: (01:41)
Actually, I'm losing my mind. I need to golf more you know, is it a hard night as an easy aide to, take the aide and just kind of grip down on it? Do I take the aid doing an easy swing? Can that end decision that doubt you end up putting just a nothing swing on the ball and you just have horrific results. But when you can commit to a course of action, good things always happen. It may not be the results that you expected or wanted or planned, but you're going to be in the right space. You're going to be heading in the right direction and sitting still for sure is not the right direction so dig deep.today, you can apply there. As soon as you, pay the retainer, you're going to get a detailed questionnaire and as soon as you get back to me, we'll schedule a private time, a recorded call, screen-share video, and we're going to dive in to what you need to work on and your results are guaranteed.

Speaker 1: (02:45)
If you need more help after that, which most people don't, honestly, we can talk about the 90 day program and that's a retainer will be applied to the 90 day. But otherwise, if you just want to spend one on one time with me, pick my brain. Have you look over anything, websites, landing pages, email funnels, copywriting, you know, your, your presentation, your webinar brochures, whatever. That's the best, fastest, most affordable way, that you can do that with me. All right, so check that out. Dig deep.today. Now let's bring on Oli Billson, entrepreneur, speaker, fellow podcast. You're all the way from New Zealand, or, or what is it? Nova Scotia. Where's that accent from? Alaska. Give me a bright you. You know, you know this by now. We don't have to go through these every time. Are you Swedish? You're Swedish. You would see kind. Actually that would be a compliment. Oh, come on man. Don't be beating up your UK friends. Well, welcome to sales podcast, man. How the heck are you? I'm good, I'm good. Thanks. Thanks for having me on. I'm excited. So a, it's about what, what three three 30 there in the afternoon.

Speaker 2: (04:01)
Oh five. Come on. How fine. Oh wow. Alright. So half five. So is that, does that mean four 30 or five 30? You know, I'm just, I'm an ugly American man. I'm five 30. I mean, I'm doing this out of hours for you. That's just how much love I've got. Yeah.

Speaker 1: (04:17)
Oh, so I'm staying in between you and the pub. So we're going to make this quick. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Very nice. Well man, thanks for setting your pint down and hopping on this podcast to shed some wisdom on our listeners. So for our friends though, that may not know who you are, would you mind give us a little thumbnail sketch and then we'll dive down the rabbit hole? Yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure so my entrepreneurial journey started when I was 15 years of age and since then I've never worked for anybody else I, my first business was building custom computers and, had a foray into exporting those computers to the far East, would you believe at the age of 15? And, kind of certainly got the bug that was passed on to me from my dad who had his own business. And, I just never really had any appetite to really work for anybody else. So I continued on and, and started a number of other businesses and, mainly, I, I kind of built businesses within businesses and so one of my businesses was a window tinting business. We then started training big Paul how to do window tinting. We then started doing vehicle remapping, which is calibration software. My technical side, played a part in that. And then we started selling franchises for that. And then at about four year period, we grew that with some marketing wizardry from zero to 170 franchisees internationally. And, and right now spend most of my time in our marketing agency, all of the, and helping other high level entrepreneurs and small businesses grow their business.

Speaker 1: (06:08)
Goodness gracious. And, so at 15, and I mean, you're only 18 now, right? She did all that in three years. It's, it's, it's these new these new mood moisturizers can do wonders, these steps, those, those peels are doing. You're great, man. I mean, you don't look a day over like 12. I mean it's, it's amazing so did you work with your father on those things or are they always on your own?

Speaker 2: (06:36)
Yeah, no, it's always on my own. I guess really some of it came that, you know, the, the kind of the backstory to that backstory is that I was actually a national tennis player from an early age. I played tennis and played fairly competitively and actually played against Andy Murray as well. And, and a number of other people that went on to do quite well. And then at the age of 14, I broke my wrist and, I guess I'd done a lot, quite young anyway, and just decided that I needed to focus my attention and foe into something else and not just so happened to be something else I was interested in and passionate about. So that's how I got started. But honestly, that was the best education I could have actually been playing sports at quite high level the, you know, it's quite serious at that time and, you know, taught me a lot about business, taught me a lot about life, matured me quite early on. And definitely, you know, put me in a place where I could take advantage of that from a business perspective they actually played tennis in the UK yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, you know, it's like a poor man's sport really. It's just, yeah, yeah, yeah. It just, I, you know, I know, I mean, you play on grass. I mean, you can't even get a court, I mean ma maybe one day that'll get a little money over there and you know, you can play like on a heart. [inaudible] anything could happen. We might even, we might even produce one of the world's best players. Who knows.

Speaker 1: (08:07)
That would be amazing all right, so 175 franchisees. And what was that business? Tell me again cause you were going kind of fast.

Speaker 2: (08:16)
Yeah, sure. So it's a vehicle, a remapping business, called black code and, we recalibrate the software on a quiet about 17,000 different vehicle variants all different manufacturers models and, we sell a business opportunity, a franchise, to help people start their own business part time, full time. It was a bolt on to what they already do. You still have that? Yeah, I still have that right now. In fact, we kind of treat that business and our training business and grow the business as one of our own clients actually in the agency. So we still do the marketing for that right now. It's still growing. It's still still flourishing and doing well. Very cool. So what made you decide to spin off a branding and marketing agency? Well, the truth is, is something that I learned, probably over 10 years ago now, was that it didn't matter how good I was at what our, what it, what business I was in.

Speaker 2: (09:26)
It was, it really there the, the idea of, you know, understanding that, you know, McDonald's don't necessarily make the best burgers. They just got a very good system for acquiring customers. And so, you know, it didn't matter how good I was at what I was doing, even though I'm by nature, kind of a perfectionist and very detailed orientated and I have to get good at getting and keeping customers. And so really as we both know, that's like the lifeblood of every business. And so I kind of went into, you know, research, looking at ways that I could and should do that and came across direct response marketing, and initially found, you know, most people's kind of journey starts out kind of the, the good greats like Dan Kennedy and started studying, that material and where I started to learn about how to implement our response marketing, which really was the catalyst for a lot of success that we've had since.

Speaker 2: (10:36)
So, but then you figured, Hey, everybody struggles with this. Let's create a, a spin off business. Well, what was interesting was that we had got, you know, really, in the short period of time we have been able to create a marketing system that was, you know, I'm not going to pretend that everything's always about roses but you know, we got a predictable system down for acquiring customers and one of the things that a few people would start to realize was, well, you know, a lot of the things we were doing, a lot of things we were implementing, especially when we were marrying direct response marketing, but with marketing automation, some of the things we were doing, we thought that's what everybody was doing. And even though I was an early, I'm an early adopter of infusion soft certainly in the UK, you know, I thought that everybody was doing this stuff.

Speaker 2: (11:34)
And it turned out that not many people were and not many people were growing that quickly. So a few people that had kind of, you know, just through conversation, it kind of took notice and wanting to learn more how we could help. And initially I started consulting with a few different companies and different niches completely unrelated to ours and I'm quite an impatient person by nature, as you know, was. And so I kind of got a bit disenchanted by that consulting thing because honestly I did it more for fun than I did for the money because, you know, consultants kind of tired from any work and that money could have been better spent that time could have been better spent on my own business. But, I was just disenchanted by, it didn't matter what advice I was giving to business owners, they were just struggling to assemble a team of people. I could go and execute on that strategy and it was really holding them back. So we transitioned that to, well, Hey, why don't we just offer them our team that I had built at that time that had built my own business with the same tools, with the same principles, same methodology to help grow that business. And so that was the kind of the how the, the agency that we've got today initially evolved of this team now doing work for other people and so that's, that's where we, where we started out.

Speaker 1: (13:01)
So, so now you're doing done for you, but what are the most common things that you see people not doing or you know, what's one of the first things you do for pretty much every client that, that our listeners could try to go do on their own?

Speaker 2: (13:17)
Well, it's interesting, nowadays and just talking about like Dan Kennedy, GKC they're actually a client of ours. It's funny how these things kind of come around, right? And so, at a high level, we deal with a lot of high level, business owners and, and, and companies and actually some of that stuff is, really, really nailing down a solid end to end for end funnel for somebody because, and there are a lot of, you know, that sometimes it can be quite a lot of pieces to that. But that's the thing, a lot of people come to us with a certain degree of complexity. And what we do is simplify that into something that's very easy for us to understand what's working, where it's working or where it's not working. More importantly, and having something that everybody can be on board with that client journey from lead to customer, so that we can really get a line in the sand to know what we should do next. So it's really organizing what some of these got to begin with. Assembling that into way, a predictable lead to customer experience. And then from that going on to optimize and customize it, doing all the things that we know how, but really it's getting very clear on the basics first, right? How, how important is paid advertising in today's world? Because I still see these people out there or I'm a social media marketer but I was reading a thing just this morning by a guy talking about the ugly gamesmanship of Instagram, and how that's quickly getting ruined. Just like everything else, right? I mean, marketers ruin everything so it's everything I'm seeing is you gotta pay you gotta you gotta have paid campaigns, particularly on Facebook, to really get the word out or are you seeing that as well?

Speaker 2: (15:18)
Yeah, sure. I think there's three things that people should be focusing their attention on and, well factually they should focus their attention on one thing and do it well and to, and to not give up on it halfway through, which is a common mistake, that they get attracted to different things. But the reason why I say three, because it's probably applicable to different people that are listening to this, one is your existing list. Okay. So not enough people are, have ways, mechanisms to generate leads from their existing list, meaning that they are, they are presenting offers to their existing lists and segmenting them appropriately and converting them from leads to customers so there is a lot of money, as the old adage says, all saying goes, the money is in the list. Well, that is partially true.

Speaker 2: (16:18)
But you wouldn't know how to get that money out of the list but not enough people spend enough time on thinking about how they can monetize their existing list. That's number one number two is intentional traffic there is at any given time, people are searching for what you have got to offer on Google, Google advertising right now although it has increased in cost over time, it's still an affordable and profitable way for most people to advertise and where people have a certain level of intent, they have a search intent of something that they're actually looking for. You should be should be showing up and for any other keywords that are related to your niche, you should also be sharing on Google ad words. And then from a Facebook standpoint, you've got to understand that that's that level of interest.

Speaker 2: (17:16)
Targeting is not intentional. You are not, although you think you're being intentional over the audience you're trying to target, that may go over the TAC case. You're actually interrupting people with your message. So it is a different type of targeting, that you are, and it's a different kind of offer that you're presenting in order to capture somebody's interest or pique their interest to move them towards you. So there are three different types of ways to get towards you and those are indicative of those kind of three channels really, and that we'd spend most of our time on. Right.

Speaker 1: (17:58)
So let's boil this down. Cause most people, even if the list is small, they have a list even if it's from a trade show six months ago where they got 300 names and it's sitting in an Excel spreadsheet and they never followed up with it or if it's a handful of fans on their fan page but it's interesting the way you delineate and differentiate between Google and Facebook. So Google somebody is typing in, you know, Los Angeles auto mechanic or Miami Mexican restaurant, right? Or, you know, New York chiropractor. So yeah, so they're in the searching mode. They're trying to find something. Whereas Facebook, they're maybe goofing off, right? They're escaping everything and you're trying to insert a there that, that captures their attention and says, stop looking at cat videos and arguing about politics and com, click on my ad, you know, watch my video, pay attention, go somewhere else and, and give me your name and email. Right. So, is one harder than the other?

Speaker 2: (19:16)
Well, I think that it, I think it's not necessarily how hard it is. I think that it's the message that's got to connect with the people, from the outset and that message to market match is the basics of any marketing that you're doing here, here's what I would say to you is, and hopefully this puts in perspective for people that are listening is like if you're on Google and you're looking for, a local business provider, you probably do not want to know when you, if you type in a bazooka Rampton chiropractor, okay. When you, when you do that, what you don't want to see is a landing page with a free guys, which everybody tells you to do. Okay. A free guy. And that says five things you need to know before you know, choosing a chiropractor.

Speaker 2: (20:20)
Okay. You got one that, because when you think about that, you, you can be very slightly off with that because initially you might think, well, five things you need to know, guide it's information. First, there's value in advance. We're getting people to give us their name and email and that's what they want. Surely that's what they want because we're now providing value, not they have intentional or they have an intent behind that search and they intent, they are intentionally looking for something far greater to put them into more of a call shed tooling process or course scheduling funnel whereby we've already, they've already qualified themselves that, that, that, that's a qualified then you know, asking them to give us their name, email for a free ebook, you know, they're already further down the funnel. That's sort of in the middle of funnel, bottom of funnel stage, not at the top of the funnel.

Speaker 2: (21:12)
And so the five things you need to know before an ebook, before you, slight to chiropractor may not also work on Facebook. You may think it may do, but really what you're doing is at the top of the funnel lab, which is more Facebook glad activity you're probably driving things to at five ways to avoid back pain when gardening this summer. Okay? Now that is content first that you can put onto Facebook. You can then drive them to a blog post and then you can remarket them back to a lead magnet. That's like five things that you need to know before you hire a chiropractor. So this can ruined, see to the heat, the people that are moving towards you.

Speaker 1: (21:58)
So somebody type it in chiropractics. Say the first, the first model they're doing a search. Now I will use my wife as an example, although we knew a chiropractor, but she did hurt her back and we went to our friend, but if she didn't know anybody and she enters, you know, chiropractor nine, two, five, six, three, right on our zip code I mean, I, I guess even if there's different stages. It's like, Oh my gosh, I am hurt right this very moment. Right. And she was literally, you know, doubled over, versus maybe somebody that had hurt their back, gardening. And I go, I'm going to walk it off. I'm gonna try to sleep it off. Maybe they're in a different stage versus somebody that just has recurring. I go every time I golf, my back hurts. So they let us take that guy. It's not, it's not totally urgent. And, and they do a search. Do they, do they want to speak to somebody? Do they, they want to give up their information and maybe be hounded, Hey, come in for a free exam, come in for a free extra, you know, what's, how would you guide someone through that process?

Speaker 2: (23:18)
Yeah. So I think the, the, the, the idea is that, you know, you, you need any, any of these stages where people are at, you know, the closer to the pain that somebody is, the, the, the call to action has to resonate with the stage and phase of where they are making that decision. The fact is if I'm doubled over and I'm, you know, not in a good way, I'm very much less likely to be reading a guide of who the best person is to choose. I'm more likely to, pretty much know who can see me the quickest. How quickly can I call somebody to, to, to go and get booked in? How close are they to me? So there's a proximity thing, how quickly can they fit me in? And so the conversation and the keyword might be different.

Speaker 2: (24:17)
So you might, you might, the keyword might be something more like immediate chiropractor or quick response car or practice or a last minute chiropractor appointment or whatever it may be. There's a different intent behind that search by what the search query they put in to a one which is slightly higher level than that where it's more of an inquiry where they want to maybe download an information pack and then possibly go in and schedule a call, very low resistance, you know, little bit higher level resistance, but the, the one where they need, they come onto your website, they click from the, from the ad you may be like for mediate support, you can just click to call straight from the advert. You may not actually need to go to a landing page. And then your lead capture process is actually on the other end from the inbound call that says, great, I'd love to help you with that. Sounds like you're not in a good way. Let me just take a few details and I can rush you through to our client coordinator, the patient coordinator who can give you the next slot. You've got the data capture, but you've just taken a different place to generate the lead. So if they don't convert, then you've got a way to follow up.

Speaker 1: (25:27)
Man that seems like work.

Speaker 2: (25:30)
Yeah, I mean that's, that's it. You know, you've got to do that. You've got to do the hard things to make selling easy. You know this, you know [inaudible] cannot just pay some kid $10 an hour to stand out front and twirl his sign and just all these people will come in with back pain and just give me money.

Speaker 2: (25:48)
Well that's definitely a strategy that you could use. It may be one of the things that you might do. Maybe it's one of the things you should dig, but it's probably one of the things you should do because one day that kid's going to get ill and you're going to want one. What more than one channel of marketing to support everything that you're doing.

Speaker 1: (26:07)
What about just like spilling water on the tile floor at the mall and just having people slip in like a mobile kiosk, like walk around like with one of those adjustable beds, like on wheels.

Speaker 2: (26:20)
It sounds quite illegal, but it's something that I wouldn't put passages. There's probably a job opportunity. If everything goes wrong here for you, then we can talk about how we can probably build a practice together.

Speaker 1: (26:33)
They look at at 1:49 AM back in April at an unnamed bar. I do have a recording of providing that advice. So it didn't just come to my own mind. Okay. I'm, I'm listening to you.

Speaker 2: (26:50)
I don't recall that conversation, but I've got a good feeling. I might have been under the influence.

Speaker 1: (26:57)
You were under the influence of the sales whisperer.

Speaker 2: (27:01)
Yeah. So, but I mean, it is work. Right? And is that, is that why people don't do it honestly is because it's, again, there's a different mindset for Google versus Facebook versus organic versus over time. Right? I mean, this all changes, you know, people talking about, Oh, Hey, the algorithms changing on Instagram, Oh, what was me? It's like, well, hello there. The algorithm is always changing, right? I mean, like what's the longest you've run an ad or even like right now, what's the longest running unchanged ad? Yeah,

Speaker 2: (27:38)
yeah, yeah, sure. Great question and, and here's the answer to it. We're still running the exact same funnel, that we, we use from an offline lead generation to an online so offline to online, a lead generation funnel that we've been using since 2004.

Speaker 1: (28:04)
So it's the same funnel. Yes, but I bet it's you're using different ads over those 13 years there is a slight, there's been some, a lot of testing that we've done in that time I have the messaging, but the message is still connecting with the audience. There's still alignment this between them, there's still the congruent, see that and that really gets people to take action, there's still the same hook what we've got better at is being able to segment the people that are coming in and then follow up with those people with different messages based upon the profile of them coming towards us and that has increased conversions and we've been able to do that a lot better with technology and automation, as a result.

Speaker 1: (28:57)
So, cause yeah, I mean I've had the same thing that the seven deadly sins of selling that's been, that was my first sequence that I made with Infusionsoft in 2008. Right but I, I mean again, I'm tweaking that all the time as well because I mean that, so that confirms two things. One is thing I always say is that humans are humans and human nature doesn't change, you know, and in sales, good sales training, it literally never changes how to connect with somebody, how to establish rapport, how to discover, need and pain that will literally never ever change. Now, now the ad I create may change a little bit but I mean how long are you seeing something work? Cause you know, there's the old thing about ad fatigue, right? If you were on the same ad over and over, over again, we just start to block it out. I think it depends on the audience that you're targeting and the list that you're targeting because there, there is a degree of fatigue that can happen if the message has been presented in the same way over and over and over again, or the same creatives being used over and over and over again to the same audience because we live in a world of direct response. If I'm putting my ad to my, my message in front of somebody and they're not converted and they've seen it several times, you know, ultimately, you know, I'm, I'm wasting marketing money, marketing dollars, and I need to hone my message, or I need to be, you know, possibly testing something else. I think that, you may have the same offer, but it might be presented in a different way is, is a consideration.

Speaker 2: (30:43)
But I've gotta be honest. I, I tell you son, I'll tell you this now, not because, well, just to show, show that even though we're running an agency and even though it's one of our businesses, which we treat as a bit of a playground, I, I looked back at lead source ROI report for one of our businesses, that we do some marketing for. And it was a, an offline, which is can be expensive, especially these days to run an offline lead generation campaign. And we did all the lead tools, our ROI stuff tracked and Infusionsoft and that thing is getting 5,000, 200 and something percent ROI. Why is it getting so much? It was because there was a tail, there was a tail that was a recurring revenue stream. And what we thought maybe wasn't working as well as we wanted it to actually being over time has prevailed to work extremely well because the lifetime value is being there and you know, I mean it just goes to show, you know, sometimes the most expensive leads can be the cheapest customers.

Speaker 1: (31:50)
Yeah, good point. How, how does somebody though stay the course? Because it can be okay, frustrating. It can be a maybe take the wind out of your sales, right? So I'm spending money, I'm running these ads now that seems to be working, I mean, how, how did you have the confidence, you know, to, to keep testing, keep iterating and stay the course?

Speaker 2: (32:17)
I think that just by my nature, I think I'm proper perhaps in a [inaudible] in the minority in the sense that, you, one of the things that will improve your business by leaps and bounds, is getting good and understanding that if you get good at marketing, it is probably the best skill that you can have to create income at will most for your business. However that re your business as it will grow goes through different phases. And when your business gets to a certain phase, you realize that although you might be good at marketing, actually you not, you don't necessarily need to do marketing and neither should you be doing the marketing and so that is not the way that you build a self managing business and so a business is business. You want to be building a business, you don't want to be self employed.

Speaker 2: (33:20)
And there's a big difference between the two with me, I was lucky that, you know, I, I think we were at a stage in our business where I had to be good at everything. I had to get good at infusion soft, I have to get good at some level of you know, WordPress programming. I have to get good at copywriting. And so all of these things I can do but I realized at some point that I had to pass this knowledge down. I had to build a team of people as certainly marketing technology, advertising channels have changed. I have to eventually invest into a team that could do everything. You can't just be a Jack of all trades and a master of not, not in today's day and age, especially if you're growing a thriving business. And so that was the distinction that I made that we would begin building our team.

Speaker 3: (34:17)
So, all right. You do just trying to think where to take this because it is, I'm trying to, to overcome the objections of our listeners, right? Who maybe they brought on people. It didn't work that really, I think deep down they're just not good marketers. So they've been lied to. They've been, had been sold a bill of goods. It sounded good because they didn't know enough, is that kind of a necessary step to go through and become good at these things? So you know what can be outsourced or you can at least have your fingers in it. Because I always tell people that the number one hardest thing to outsource is your marketing because nobody will know your business. Like you will, nobody will love your business like you do. And while you can bring in others to help, it still needs to be your baby, right? As the owner. And I mean, do you recommend people just totally give that away, outsource it and hope for the best?

Speaker 2: (35:26)
No. This is does it really, really big difference between delegating and abdicating. And what I find that a lot of bit small businesses are quite happy to add what they think is delegate, but what they do is abdicate and then blame of the people for it going wrong because they haven't taken responsibility and growing their own business. And so quite honestly, it's irrelevant of all in a very unique situation. It would have to be relevant whereby you know, you have everything go over to somebody else regardless of what their credentials are and you have an expectation that just going to grow your business. For you that's abdicated you need to have a very clear vision for your business. And what priority is it governing to drive that vision in order to, get clear on what success really looks like and what team you need to assemble to help you get that and often it comes down to once you get clear on that, it comes down to speed. How quickly do you want to get that? For sure. If you want to hone in and focus and sharpen your saw on, you know, buying courses, attending events, reading the right books, listening to podcasts, and being subscribed to the right newsletters. That's cool, but just be prepared that at the end of it, information doesn't lead to, doesn't lead or doesn't necessarily met, meet up with getting a better result. Not many people need more information. They just need to implement more things into their business. And that sort of course where you then start thinking about how do I assemble a team of people that can help me do this? And more importantly, when you do find a team that actually is in alignment with what they got, what, where the business is going and what's going to be meaningful for the business, otherwise you can end up spending your whales and you can also end up going through a very expensive process of working with people that, you know, aren't necessarily contributing to that vision. How do you know when it's time to, to bring somebody in full time versus outsource? Well, I mean, it's a very good question because a lot of people that we, we work with actually arrive at this point themselves where they're thinking about maybe, you know, they've tried doing it themselves. They then tried building an outsource team of people. Maybe somebody is doing fusion soft, maybe somebody to do, maybe somebody to do, copywriting, maybe somebody to build webpages for them or membership sites, whatever and then they end up being a project themselves of all those people. And then they arrive at this decision that actually maybe I should just hire a marketing person in the house.

Speaker 2: (38:42)
But with that comes a huge liability and he drips because although it might seem like a great thing to do, to have somebody in house that 50, 60, $70,000 that you're going to have to spend to get somebody good, it's probably going to be good at one thing. They're probably not going to be good at lots of things. They're probably going to be good at one thing. And so you're going to then turn that person into a glorified project manager of, again, an AppSource team, and that can be a dangerous place to be because in my world, there are two different types of managers. There's process managers and project managers and you actually need both in your business. And so really the, and this is really a pitch for us. I mean, there are other agencies that do, I'm sure some things similar, but you know, for us, that's really, really where we pick up the ball because, you know, we get aligned to that, that team that already exists or get aligned to the business owner and what they need to have happen to realize that vision. Right? Sometimes you gotta kiss a few frogs yeah, I mean, you know, we, it's unfortunate, but it can be, there's, I think that, you know, a lot, a lot of people have a decision making process. They don't have decision making processes in their business for how they hire, how they fire, how they bring on outsourcers, how they delegate work. They don't have a process for how they do it. And in, in part of that process is, it's sometimes like a litmus test that you force yourself to go, go give every single time you go through, every single time you, you know, want to take some Anon or make a decision which would give some of these, some guidelines to if they are making the right decision or not.

Speaker 2: (40:33)
Because it can be a lonely place. Like when you need something done and you don't know how to do it, you've got to reach out to somebody to do it. And that means you putting your trust in somebody to actually go in and do it with your heart and, and money and so, you know, you've got to have some sort of decision making guidelines and how you go about to do that blind really, you know, most people are just shooting from the hip, right? Right. You know, we know we live in a fast world, but you know, there is some level of critical thinking that they need to go through, to, to really allow them to realize their full potential. Right. And are you helping people do that, that critical thinking, or are you helping outsource that so they can free up their mind and focused on whatever new inventions in the company?

Speaker 2: (41:22)
Well, it's exactly like you said before that you know, I think everybody's under the same you know, certainly should have the same belief system that you can't expect to hire a marketing department and then to just grow your business for you. So generally when somebody engages with us, it's all about that strategic plan because there's a lot of people don't have it, even some of the best people, but we work with the eight figure and beyond. There's things, there's, you know, they, they, they just don't have it. They're just not clear on what they, where they're trying to get to. What are we trying to do here? You know, they're just not clear. And so how could you possibly do anything unless you've got a clear vision for what you're trying to get to and so often people are just stuck in the weeds and yeah, they've got great ideas, lots of creativity about different funnels, different campaigns they can build. Yeah, great book. That's all fine. But what should you do right now to move yourself forward from where you are? And part of that comes down to let's get clear on your annual priorities. Let's bring that down into a 90 day plan. Let's bring that into a monthly deliverable. And even let's bring that down into a fortnightly sprint. And that's how we approach yet. And it's proven to really just get people very focused on how they can best leverage our resources to get the best results.

Speaker 1: (42:41)
Did you say night? Fortnightly. Sprint? Yeah.

Speaker 1: (42:45)
Golly, abdicate for, hold on. I got to Google some stuff here. I mean, you, you Australians are smart man. Y'all use some big words.

Speaker 2: (42:55)
I'll was, you did ketamine, you crack me up. So how big is your team now? So, across the different businesses, we've got 29 staff, and predominantly 16. Our core members of our agency team, the, that work, really full service across the business, running traffic, copy, conversion optimization, Infusionsoft campaign architecture backend development as well really full board for [inaudible]. Does that count your, your daily massage therapists or is that a contractor?

Speaker 2: (43:40)
Well, it's actually funny because we, we actually used to get in a weekly massages for the team. We used to have that as like a perk. And then weirdly, like some guy just said, you know, I'm too busy to do this. And then we were like, Oh, I right, okay, fine. We'll take it away. And now since our team have grown the like, Oh, I got told that a few years ago, you brought this person each week. I'm like, yeah, well we'll think about that. Yeah, man, back in 2000, I was in for, I was in Austin working with a startup and and I had the whole Western us, so I traveled a bunch, but when I was in town, I'd go to the office and once a week they'd bring this gal in as a massage therapist. They were like, Oh, she's the best man, but she's so tough. She's, you know, deep tissue stuff. And you know, I'm 34 big guy working out like, Oh, I can handle it. And Oh my gosh, I literally, I had to summon every ounce of braggadocious manhood to not literally cry.

Speaker 1: (44:50)
And when we were done, I was like, Oh my gosh, that was so hard. She was, she was like, you should've said something. I was like, I just thought that's what you did. And everybody liked it. I was like, this hurts so bad. I think I heard for a week, man. No more corporate massages. Oh man. Well that's awesome. Will do. Thanks for sharing your words of wisdom. Where do we send people to learn more about you?

Speaker 2: (45:27)
So I, they should head over to Oliver billson.com. That's all of the bills and we're two hours.com. I'm sure you put it in the show notes or whatever it is. And we publish twice a week on our blog over there, some cool stuff that's working for people right now and they can go and go and check that out.

Speaker 1: (46:49)
Very nice. And yeah, I've known you through the Infusionsoft community. I've met you at Dan Kennedy's event year ago. Can you please spend a year, know you're speaking and we're in a mastermind together, so everybody check out what Oli is up to the guy knows his stuff. So man, thanks, thanks for slowing down your pint consumption, to shed some words of wisdom. I'm glad you did not have a gate, the responsibility of the interview to one of your staff members and you shared information on what a, I don't even know. It's not niche a niche. It's niche on the niches for all of us. May has been that. It's been great catching up with you. Pleasure. Thanks so much. Wise. All right man. Have a great night stay and Ida, like any good Dan Kennedy protege, you notice how he talked about one being the loneliest number, right?

Speaker 1: (47:49)
You can't have just one source of leads or traffic, but conversely, when you do have one that is working, keep it going. So, you know, we're 2017 years, so he's had this same sequence running, you know, in its core unchanged for 13 years. You know, I've had one running for nine years, so when something's working, let it keep working, right? Don't get bored with it. As long as it's producing leads and income and a positive ROI, keep going. But like any marketing plan, you want to iterate, right? In the very beginning you create three very different offers, right? Let's say it's, you know, a truck, a minivan, and a motorcycle. And if more people respond to the motorcycle, then go with a motorcycle. And so then you do a red motorcycle, a blue motorcycle, you know, a yellow motorcycle, okay? So now they, the yellow is popping. So now you go with yellow. And so now you start refining that. So you went from three different cars, two or three different types of automotive type devices to the motorcycle. Now the color, now you have the color, now you start building out accessories or maybe various paint schemes and designs, maybe different shades of yellow, maybe pictures of a yellow motorcycle with saddlebags, right? Yellow motorcycle with flames coming along the side. And so you constantly iterate to see what works. And that's just a broad example, but you get the point, you've and it, as long as it's working, keep it running. But your goal is always to try to beat your best performing ad, your best performing sequence. But it's hard to do honestly over time. You just, you either get bored with it or there's other irons in the fire and you know, things come up and you've got to tend to the emergencies and then you, you let a campaign run too long and you waste money or it got turned off cause you said, you know, a five day, 10 day, 30 day timer on it, you forgot the checks and then leads dry up.

Speaker 1: (48:48)
So here's a lot to running a business. So that's why you gotta surround yourself. You know, I know Oli because I'm in a mastermind with him, so I'm always surrounding myself with great people as well to give me advice and insight. Now help me when I'm frustrated, encourage me when things are going right or when they're going wrong. So, you know, you can't do this alone, right? And you're not really, truly alone anyway, it's not like you're inventing things. There's already Facebook, you're reading somebody's book, you're reading blogs. Somebody is inspiring you. So get the help you need to grow faster. That's why I created the, the dig deep program. It's our, it's a modification what I've always done through my initial process assessment, but it's a one on one time with me to peel everything back. Apply my 21 years in sales experience to help you 11 years as an entrepreneur and business owner.

Speaker 1: (49:33)
You know, I've helped over 2,355 entrepreneurs, automate, integrate and dominate. And that's across five continents, 27, 28 countries and just about every industry you can think of. So check that out. Dig deep.today. Let me help you dig deep today. Thanks for listening. As always, please share this. Please leave a review. Let me know you're out there. I put a request out today actually on Facebook. If you know of a podcast that I should be on, you know, I'm looking to grow. I'm looking to be interviewed as well. So if you have contacts with people, if you like my approach, you think I'd be good on their show, please let me know. Do a little introduction you know, do it on Twitter or wherever, wherever you hang out, you can email me, I will be greatly appreciative of that. Thanks for listening. And as always, remember to sell different [inaudible].

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