In this episode Oliver Billson talks to Graham and Kevin about his FSMC framework for creating hugely effective marketing funnels

For Oli, marketing funnels are all about creating a journey for your customers. His agency goes a further step and creates dynamic lead to customer experiences. This means they can talk to people at a human level, to pivot and change the conversation, depending upon the information they provide, what their problems are and why they were coming to you in the first place.

By doing this, Oli creates contingencies in the marketing funnel to follow up with people effectively and create conversations that are meaningful for them.

Oli’s formula for marketing funnels is F.S.M.C.

F is for Finish.

Begin with the end in mind. What is the overall objective of the campaign? Distinguish the finish point. Don’t allow your campaign to become a large elaborate monster. Oli breaks campaigns into smaller chunks. He thinks about what is the end-point of this campaign that he is trying to get people to. This might be:

  • Scheduling a call.
  • Buying a lower end “tripwire” product.
  • The customer calling you.
  • Attending or registering for a webinar.

Have the end in mind. The end-point is not necessarily someone engaging in a purchase. However, Oli recommends to create dynamic lead to customer experiences you need to chunk down effectively. The finish point is the start point for the next campaign.

Oli mentioned a client he is working with, their initial campaign is to have a lead development call, with the goal of scheduling a call for a sales representative. Everything before that is the mechanics of the campaign, first attempt at contacting, the second attempt at contacting, the qualification element. The second campaign, is the consult scheduled to close campaign. The finish point of that campaign, that they have an intention of interest that leads them to their first purchase. Oli is breaking down the sales process into separate campaigns, and placing focus on each campaign.

This allows you to spend more money on the people who make it through to the second campaign as qualified leads. Perhaps by:

  • Sending a “Shock and Awe” box in the post to warm them up before that scheduled call.
S is for Start point.

How do people actually enter the campaign? You could be sending people to an opt-in form on your website. Maybe paid traffic, Facebook, YouTube, or a direct mail piece to drive website visits. Using a house list you might invite them by email. There needs to be a logical start point where they begin.

By breaking down these start campaigns, it helps you to track, measure and monitor more easily by thinking of these as smaller bite-sized campaigns that have different start points.

If the campaign above is “Contact request to qualification”, then the campaign before that is “How do we get people to the Contact point” – so the start point is to send a series of postcards, to drive them online, to put in their contact information to drive lead development.

M is for Milestones.

Defining what goals that need to be satisfied along the journey from start to finish. There will be parts of the journey that you need to be clear about. If the first milestone is to click to download a video, then did they consume 20% of the video or 75% of the video. This allows you to move people through the funnel either progressively or non-progressively based on their behaviour. That’s where “dynamic lead to customer experience” comes from.

In the Milestones stage, they have to go through these milestones, the sequence they go through in order to get to where we want them to go. You must be clear on what those milestones look like.

The ‘critical path’ – we are choreographing the journey, through the milestones. In advance, you will know people will only take action when they want to.

C is for Contingencies.

If people don’t take the critical path from milestone to milestone, we need to help people keep to the right/critical path. Not to detour and go off in a different direction. They may exit completely, they might opt-out of our emails. It is important to understand what the contingencies are BETWEEN those milestones to get people back on track.

Good examples of this are mixing up the media – if they are not responding by email, follow up by text message. If they didn’t buy on the webinar, the milestone was they registered for the webinar and the next milestone was they got to watch the webinar and the next milestone is they saw the offer, the next milestone is they saw the offer and they need to buy. Using those milestones, you can look at people who didn’t get to the part of watching the webinar, and then taking remedial action – send them a replay. Those who attended the webinar but didn’t see the offer – as we had their address from lead capture, we can send them a recording of the webinar in the post, with a letter that says, we noticed you registered for the webinar but weren’t able to see what we had on offer, we think it might be of interest to you, here it is, here’s the cd.

Is it a great bug DECISION TREE?

Often business owners are not short of creativity or ideas. People can see these things, but they struggle to IMPLEMENT their campaigns. FSMC is about starting with building blocks to build out your campaigns effectively.

Is the power in the contingencies?

Yes, people will only buy when they are ready. We live in a busy world. How do we follow up effectively to keep people on track. Look at consumption and engagement. Ask the question, what if they don’t.

“For every inaction, there is a reaction”

Better still, “For every action OR inaction, there is a reaction”.

When you recover people BACK to the critical path, is the initial recruitment method important?

There is a lot of congruency, it makes sense to be congruent. If you do offline to online and recruit via postcards, if you want a response, you take them back offline for response as that’s originally how they responded.

Facebook lead ads. They can run purely on mobiles. If the download is a video. They deliver the link to watch the video as an SMS. It is more congruent.

Facebook allows you to create an objective through Facebook advertising called lead generation. Primarily it is for mobiles. Now for desktops too. When you click on the ad, within 2 taps, it allows you to submit a form. The form they submit is within the Facebook environment, so they are not clicking on an ad and being taken away from Facebook, which means you are not creating that FRICTION about taking them outside an environment they didn’t want to be taken out of.

These ads by nature are an interruption. Once the ad is clicked, it will present a pop-up form, pre-populated with information Facebook holds for you. That means the accuracy of the data that is being provided is greater. We can customise those forms to ask some questions. Such as asking whether they want to be contacted by an adviser. We’ll deliver the video on SMS, and depending on whether they said YES or MAYBE get an adviser to contact me, they are handed to lead development, and with MAYBE they’ll get a further SMS. A 2-way automated text message sequence. So the first text might say, is now a good time to call, text YES, if not text NO. Then that response triggers the call or not. Oli calls this a PRE CALL SMS. They prime the call with a text and that increases the contact rate. Oli has found the SMS delivery mechanism has meant the time between REQUESTING INFORMATION and CONSUMING INFORMATION has been a lot shorter.

The key point is: When people are at their hottest, you don’t want to stop that motion.

With lead ads, it is reasonable to ask for their mobile number as that is why they ask for the mobile number. There are multiple modalities to follow up, so they also ask on lead ads for their email address.

A big mistake people make. Business websites are littered with content, so gating the content to exchange contact information for lead magnet or piece of value. Stagger the request for information. Sometimes it is good to ask HOW they want to consume the information – post, email, mobile.

If someone comes from Google Adwords from an intentional search, then we know they are specifically looking for something. THEY do not want to download “5 Things You Need to Know About…”. They want the information pack, they want the scheduled call, they want to speak to somebody.

It’s about providing the right amount of value they need to get them to the next milestone.


“Motion beats meditation.” Gary Halbert

What is important – you don’t want to stop people whilst they are in motion. A good tip is to have a low-value product offer on your THANK YOU PAGE. To segment those people who are in motion, between buyers and leads. Changing the relationship between lead and buyer changes what you can do.

NO DEAD THANK YOU PAGES. Give them a splintered version of your core offer.

Oli advises a good strategy for marketing funnels is to:

  • Drive people to un-gated premium blog content from paid traffic.
  • Don’t ask for their email address.
  • Set a re-marketing pixel on the blog
  • Then re-market people back to a lead magnet.
  • This is NOW congruent with what they originally read and you have already offered value in advance in exchange for their name and email.
  • You have value in advance.

Facebook re-marketing pixel helps with contingency events.

The beauty of building audiences off different pages is you begin to build a picture of these buckets of these lists. That then when you do have an offer, you can very effectively drive traffic to in a very targeted way. This means, your conversion costs are going to be a lot lower.

Inside a funnel, Oli uses software that links between Infusionsoft CRM and Facebook Audiences. Depending upon what milestone they are at in the campaign, it is matched with and synced with that Facebook audience. This allows you to send a message that is congruent with where they are and the milestone that they next need to take. Oli says it is very effective and affordable – see

Speaker 1: (00:00)
Hello and welcome to the next 100 days podcast. My name is Graham Aero Smith and my name is Kevin Applebee. Well today Kevin, we have got Oli Billson who runs Oliver Billson, a results marketing agency in Stafford in England. All other as well is very, very active within the GKC community. I believe.

Speaker 2: (00:27)
He certainly is. And one of the reasons that we wanted to get Oli on the show was because of his, one of the articles you wrote on the GKIC marked in letter. In addition to that, Kim Walsh Phillips was really kind to actually put us in his direction as well. Oli reveals to us at the end of the show that he started a new podcast with Kim and the certain mr Dave D who we also hope to attract to the web, to the podcast in the near future as well. So Kevin, it's going to be an interest in wellness.

Speaker 3: (01:00)
It is. I'm really looking forward to learning all about how to efficiently manage your sales funnel. And I think Oli is going to introduce us to something called the FSMC framework. So I'm really excited to find out what that's all about.

Speaker 2: (01:18)
Welcome Oli. Oh, welcome. Thank you. Appreciate you having a zone. Thanks a lot. Great to have you on board. Everly you, you came very, very highly recommended Oli, Kim Walsh Phillips recommended that we must have you on the podcast. So we took action and thanks to Oli on your team. Everything's as it should be. It's good to hear. That's good to hear and if you weren't going to be available also would have been a perfect substitute. I can, I can show you, but the one thing that I wanted to pick up on many people will know and will have heard of marketing funnels, but here's what you wrote in an article that really got my attention a few weeks ago. And it just leads us very nicely into, into what we'd like to talk about. But it's really the, the, what you said is that all business owners, even the best struggle to go from idea to implementation in the shortest possible time. You see when it comes to crafting even the simplest marketing campaign, it's not what you do. It's the way you do it. That counts. Most people do it wrong or worse, don't do it at all. Now I know that you've thought this through in your agency Oli and you've got some really good advice on a formula that we can all follow Oli, can you tell us about your FSMC formula?

Speaker 4: (02:44)
Yeah, sure. Well, just to kind of tee up railing and give everybody on the episode of better context I've kind of coined the term really when it comes to creating a successful marketing funnel really what it's about is creating a journey for your customer and it actually to go a little bit further than that, we actually what we caught, we create a scenario where we create dynamic lead to customer experiences and that really means that we can talk very directly in kind of a humanized way, if that's the right way of putting it to people to pivot and change the conversation on depends in a poem the information that they provided to us what, what their problems are and, and, and what really that coming to us for in the first place. So, in doing that, we need to be able to create some contingencies in the marketing funnel to be able to follow up with people effectively and create conversations that are meaningful for them.

Speaker 4: (04:02)
That leads you into, kind of very nicely into the formula itself. I, I just wonder whether or not just explain to us what the F starts. Yeah, sure, sure. So really it begins with the, it begins with the end in mind so you need, we really need to wait. When you crafting a, a marketing campaign, marketing funnel putting something together, really you want to, you want to begin with the end in mind and decide on really what the overall objective is of the campaign. So for some people, you know, distinguishing that finish point that, that, that, that finished point within the campaign is really important. A lot of people think you know about building these types of funnels and campaigns and they can grow into, you know, elaborate, you know, really elaborate big things and big monster Israeli.

Speaker 4: (04:59)
And the problem with that is, is that, you know, the bigger they get, the less likely they are to actually implement stuff and actually get it done and it can be quite intimidating. So we try and break those campaigns down to smaller chunks. And so when we begin with the end in mind and what we're thinking about what's the end milestone that we're trying to get people to and that might well be for some people shackling a call. It might be buying, you know, your a lower end kind of tripwire type product. It might well be you know, them actually calling you. So that might be the objective of the campaign it might be the attending or registering for a webinar, whatever it may be. We've got to think about why we want to take them and begin with that to begin with. So that's actually the, the end point. So you have to think about that end point. And I was talking just earlier in the day, I was talking to a prospective client about something similar, but in other words, getting them to a place where if you like my outcome led into them, their existing sort of sales process. So it's sort of almost, that was the end in mind. That's where the, the handover of my, my input went into their normal sales process. So that would be the end in mind in my, in my sense. So the, that end in mind is something that you, you obviously counsel people to think about initially. So that's the, your F you start with the finish. Yes. Yep.

Speaker 4: (06:35)
And I think, I think what was also just important to put in perspective is the, you know, when we, as I mentioned, and I'm just in the, in, in the context of this, you know, a lot of people often think that they are and point is them ultimately somebody engaging in a purchase when in actual fact, you know, there's lots of other steps that come before that, that, that, that, you know in order to build these kind of dynamic lead to customer experiences, you need to kind of chunk that down somewhat, to be able to do that effectively. So the, the, the finish point that then is actually then the starting point in most cases for the next campaign, the thing that happens afterwards once they've actually got to the part that you want them to.

Speaker 2: (07:24)
So it's almost like a series of campaigns, if you like. So almost like a few years ago I used to work for Lego, but a bit like building Brock building blocks sort of added together. So you're actually building on each, on each block. So you're building up a picture.

Speaker 4: (07:39)
So a good example, we, we, we've just been working on a campaign for a client this morning, which finished point of that first campaign is actually a lead development call, meaning somebody requests information on their website. They have a lead development representative reach out to those leads. And the end point of that campaign is that they actually shed jewel a call for them they that a sales rep. So the finish point in that campaign is for them to schedule a call for the actual sales rep. everything else that happens before that is really the mechanics of the campaign that, you know, consider, you know, doing the first attempt at contacting them. The second they come to contacted them that they the qualification process and that you know, in that case they want some qualification of homework done before that actually gets handed over to someone else.

Speaker 4: (08:41)
So really that's their finish point. And then of course the second campaign that they would go into is the consult shed jeweled to close campaign. And of course that's the second campaign that gets stacked. And the finish point of that campaign is that they actually have that they have that intention of interest leads them to that first purchase. And so we can see that just breaking that sales process down into two campaigns, how effective that can be when we just begin with the beginning, the end in mind for each of them really like that idea, really like that. And you're saying effectively the first campaign as a bag, taking a, a code lead and turning it into a warm lead and then saying, well, you, you've now funneled down the market to the point you're only dealing with a subset. Now we know who to concentrate on in order to take that warm lead through to conversion.

Speaker 4: (09:32)
And, and the beauty that is and again, just the reason why I impress upon this, this whole idea of beginning with the end in mind is that of course when we lead people, then two are the start of our next campaign we can then start thinking a little bit more about spending more money on those qualified leads may be following up with them with some kind of shock and awe box in the post to warm them up before that scheduled call. And, and all of that has been possible because we've distinguished that, that first campaign to get them there, finishes at the point where they're qualified and then it gets handed over to the next campaign. Yep. Very, very smart stuff. And I know that kind of takes us to the finish point the next bit after that. Oli is, is the starting point of course.

Speaker 4: (10:25)
Yeah, so, so we begin looking at obviously what the objective of the campaign is for the finish and then the, the S of the Fs MC per formula is start. How do people actually enter the campaign, so you could be sending people to an opt in form on your website you could begin by you know doing some kind of paid traffic, maybe Facebook advertising, Google advertising, YouTube, or it could even be sending people a direct mail piece to get them to respond online. Whatever the mechanism is that they get into the, the campaign is the next step of the process of well how do we actually get them in there in the first place. And of course there's lots of different start points for lots of different campaigns. If you've got a house list, your own database, they're going to get in there because you're going to invite them through emails to opt in for an offer. If you're doing kind of cold lead generation, then it could be more paid traffic, but there's got to be a logical starting point to where they should, they should begin.

Speaker 3: (11:32)
So you could easily be talking about in that two campaign process, you could be talking about multiple first campaigns then going to a single second campaign.

Speaker 4: (11:42)
Exactly. And the reason why this might seem you know, quite, quite straightforward in a way, it's amazing how many people actually don't quite grasp the concept behind this and actually that that hampers them in actually getting stuff implemented and getting stuff done because often they fund a lot of things through one starting point. And in actual fact there are all different campaigns and when you start breaking it down, you start realizing that if I'm actually going to track and measure and monitor these things, then we do effectively need to start thinking about these as a smaller bite size campaigns that have different start points of course. So [inaudible] so what you're really saying is you could well have a direct mail to online. You could well have in the same sort of campaign before we get to the, to the, if you like the finish point, you could well have a Facebook ad campaign, you can have multiple campaigns to get you to the, to the end point, to the point where you're, you've got them qualified.

Speaker 4: (12:45)
Exactly. So, you know, in that example that we just mentioned that about the campaign that was contact request to qualification as being one point the campaign that could be the campaign before that is how do we get people to the contact point? Well, the starting point is that we send a, you know, a series of postcards offline to drive them online to put in their contact information of which then gets then passed over to the lead development.

Speaker 2: (13:20)
So that, that's I S that's excellent. So what does it M-STEM for?

Speaker 4: (13:26)
M stands for milestones. And so this is really, well, what we're doing is defining what goals need to be satisfied along the journey from start to finish. Because the reality is, is that not everybody is going to take the most critical path. And so there are going to be parts of the, of the, of the funnel of the campaign that you're going to want to get very clear on, at the beginning in the planning stage of this of, okay, so they opt in. Okay. They fill in the form on our website for example. Now we want them to consume what it is that they've opted in for. So they actually, the first goal at the first milestone is actually for them to click to download the thing that they've requested. It seems obvious, but that's the first milestone. Sure.

Speaker 2: (14:21)
And that thing that they download could be a report or a video or, yeah, of course. Even more so if it's a video we can get a little bit more sophisticated because we, those milestones is milestone. A part of the planning process of the formula is did they consume 20% of the video? Did they consume 75% of the video? So we can then consider that moving people, Pete peop people through funnel more progressively or non progressively based on that behavior. And that's where that whole, you know, dynamic lead to customer experience comes from and in the milestone stage, what you're looking at is that they have to go through these milestones. That is, the sequence that they go through in order to get to where we want them to, where we want them to go and we have to be very clear on what those milestones look like.

Speaker 2: (15:16)
Then you mentioned a critical path or that's that, as I understand what you're saying there is that it's almost like if I could, if Carlsberg designed critical paths, it would look like this. Right? But frankly, not everything's designed by cow's work, so sometimes it kind of falls short or whatever. And is that really what you're, you're mean in it?

Speaker 4: (15:40)
Yeah, because I mean, the fact is is that we're kind of choreographing the journey really in advance because we know that they need to step through those milestones, you know, jump through those hoops in order to get to the finish line and what were you're able to do is we all know in advance that people only, you know, buy or take action when they want to take action, not when we want to me, make the sale or try and force them to take action. So it's really important for us to consider those milestones, which links very nicely to the last part of the formula really, which is contingencies. So the very fact is, is that what we want to understand that if people don't take the most critical path to where we, where we want them to go to from milestone to milestone we need to make sure that we keep people on the right track.

Speaker 4: (16:40)
So you know, that sometimes people detour and go off in different directions and they may also exit completely as well. Of course they might opt out of our emails or you know, they might have not responded at all to any of our kind of engagements. But it's key really, we understand what the contingencies are between those milestones to get people back on track. So good examples are this I things like mixing up the media, meaning, you know, if they're not responding by email then maybe we should follow up via text message. You know, if we've got to in our capacity to consider, you know, they didn't buy on the webinar. So you know, the milestone was that they registered for the webinar. The next milestone was that actually got to watch the webinar. Then the next milestone was that they saw the author that they, they needed to see the offer.

Speaker 4: (17:36)
Then the next milestone is that they saw the offer and they need to buy. And so you've got all of those milestones and what we can do is, Hey, look, they didn't get to the bit of watching the webinar. What are we going to do? Well, we're going to send them a replay. Okay, what about the people that attended the webinar but didn't see the author? Well, because we've done some good lead capture, we can get them back on track with our contingency and send them the recording in the post with a, with a letter to say, Hey, we noticed that you've registered for the webinar, but you weren't able to see what we got on offer. I think it's really of interest to you. Here it is. Here's a recording, here's a CD and if they saw the offer but didn't buy, then we can do some email back to getting them to engage in the purchase that we want to.

Speaker 4: (18:22)
So that's really what I mean about, really brings into some clarity that idea of milestones and contingencies and how that works. This is starting to feel like a great big decision tree, Oli. Thus there is, there is that, but I think what's really important to know is that, you know, often I find entrepreneurs, business owners, they're not short of creativity they're not short of ideas and actually it's not beyond any impossibility that people could think of these sorts of things themselves, but they do struggle to be able to implement it and actually get it out of the door with some level of consideration for what we've spoken about here. I think the key thing with the FSMC formula is actually, people can look at that from, regardless of what type of type of campaign they're looking to build. And actually like Lego, like you were saying before, start with the first building block.

Speaker 4: (19:21)
Actually get organized first and then start to, to build these campaigns out with what we've spoken about in mind. The power to me looks as though it's in the contingencies on it. It most certainly is because, you know, people as I mentioned will only while, only by will only engage when they arrive. And the fact is that these days we're bombarded with different marketing messages. Our inboxes are getting, you know, fall, we often request information for things and don't get around to seeing them. We live in a busy world. So bearing all of that in mind, we have to consider how do we consistently keep top of mind? How do we, you know, follow up effectively to keep people back on track between those milestones and you know, there's lots of very effective ways of doing that.

Speaker 4: (20:14)
You know, looking at the consumption looking at engagement and really asking yourself those questions are, what if they don't? So if we send this, what if they don't, you know what do we do? What's our action? And, you know, I, I have a term which is, you know, for every inaction there is a reaction. And that is very true. I like that for every inaction there is a reaction. So every time the potential Lee, the potential customer is inactive, there is a reaction that we can take to that. I love that. Yeah. And in actual fact the truth is, is that it's actually for every action or inaction, there is a reaction of course, because what, what a lot of people, again, sometimes don't quite realize is that between those milestones, people are being either progressive or not progressive. And so if that's aggressive, you always want to be laying there, laying the path for the next the next milestone that you want them to reach. So you need to, you need to always be thinking ahead really and that's why starting with the end in mind with the finish is always the best way forward.

Speaker 2: (21:32)
Can I ask, when you, when you actually are in this mode of actually sort of, if you're like recovering somebody to the critical path, if you're like, do you, do you think about the way in which you initially recruited them into the process? So for instance, if you, if you recruited them on Facebook or via email or you know, via postcard, et cetera, would you revert back to that methodology to get them back on track?

Speaker 4: (21:59)
Yeah, because there's, there's a lot of congruent, see if we know that they'd initially responded from one particular channel or media that it makes sense to be congruent with that. Because I'll give you a couple of examples. If we do offline to online lead generation, meaning we buy data, we send postcards, we send sales letters to try and get people to go online. That's all very well. But then when we, if we want a response from them, we're actually going to take them back offline because that's originally how they'd responded. Another example would be we've got a very effective Facebook lead up campaign that we often run for people. Now those lead ads are run purely on mobile phones now because they're on a mobile phone, they respond on a mobile phone and we're actually delivering a lead magnet as a video. But because we're delivering it as a video, we actually deliver it as an SMS.

Speaker 4: (22:52)
We don't deliver it as an email. So we actually deliver the link to watch the video as an SMS because we know the response mechanism has got to be congruent with the you know, where they were at that given time. You know, it's a bit like reading the paper seeing an advert that you want to respond to and then asking them to go to their computers, a key and an email address, you know, it can in a website, you know, there's much more effective ways of doing that. If you've got your phone next to you, it makes more sense that you might do a text based response mechanism or a phone-based response mechanism, for example. So, can you just walk us through Facebook lead ads? Again, I know this is a growing I don't think it's entirely new, but it's, it's not that old either, is it? Is it's just basically something to do with Facebook sort of populating. Yep. Their data on you sort of thing.

Speaker 4: (23:53)
We use this really effectively and the way that it works is Facebook allows you to create an objective through Facebook advertising called lead generation. That's the actual correct terminology for the type of ads you're creating. Now, primarily, this was originally designed for mobile phones, but now Facebook have swapped it round, so you can actually do this on desktop as well. But what it means is, is that when somebody clicks that ad within it's actually within two taps. They can submit a form. The form that they're submitting is within the Facebook environment. So they're not clicking on an ad and being taken away from Facebook, which means that, you know, you're not creating that friction about taking them outside of an environment that they didn't want to be taken out of really. Because of course, the adverts by nature are an interruption.

Speaker 4: (24:44)
They're in their newsfeed, they're already an interruption anyway. So if they see something that they like, they click it and then it will present a popup form, prefilled with information that's already pre populated from what Facebook's already provided us. And that means the accuracy of the data that's being captured is also very high as well. And we can also customize those forms to ask some questions. So, one of my businesses we sell a business opportunity. I always actually, it's an international franchise. We've got 170 licensees and what we do is we ask them, we're going to send them a video but we ask them would they like to be contacted by an advisor? That's one of the questions we ask on the form. And then we deliver the video via SMS and dependent upon if they said yes, then we'll make B a.

Speaker 4: (25:33)
If they said yes, they get handed over to the lead development team to call them. But we track to see if they watched the video or not when they click through from the SMS. So we know if they watched it or not. And at least that may be, we don't want to just call everybody. So then we'll reach out with an SMS because we know that's the response mechanism that they came in from. So we'll obviously we'll start what we call like a conversation starter, which would be Hey, I noticed that you'd requested the video which is great if you, would it make sense for us to have a chat question Mark? And then there's a two way text message that happens and to get some of them to the point where we're going to get them on the phone.

Speaker 2: (26:15)
And as I understand it, you can actually automate those initial conversations even, you know, so it's not a human doing it. It's almost it's a program that's, there's kind of, they know what your answer is going to be. So then the next response is, is almost like built in, it's baked in.

Speaker 4: (26:31)
We actually do that with the messages that we send via SMS, where it would be, where it would literally ask for a response, which would say if now's a good time to just text back. Yes. And if it's not, just say no, you know, and then we will trigger the automation on the back of that to then make the call or not. So we call that pre-call SMS. So we prime the call with the DAS mass before we call and that increases the contact rate. Wow. And this has been very successful for you then? Presumably? Yeah, it has. We've been running that for probably about five or six months and in that time we've found that the SMS response mechanism or delivery mechanism actually hers meant that the time between requesting the information and consuming information has been a lot shorter because generally when people are requesting it via email, you know, it gets hung up in the mailbox and then we've got it then sets up those contingencies to, to keep following them up.

Speaker 4: (27:40)
Whereas in this case, you know that they request the video and we know when they've consumed it and they've clicked through to the video. So it brings down that, that, that contact time. So when they're the hottest, you know, we don't want to stop that motion. So removing those things out of that allows us to be able to have a much warmer lead with more intention to take it to the next milestone. All if you do something by SMS, does that imply at some point you've got to ask the person for their phone number yeah. So on the lead ad, we, we, we try and general good practices to actually not try and ask for too much information. Asking for too much information can actually reduce your conversions. But, with lead ads it's, you know, it's reasonable to ask for a little bit more information because of course we can't, we've got to send the video somewhere.

Speaker 4: (28:33)
So, we do make it clear that we are sending the video via a text message. That's the reason why we need the mobile number. So, you know, in the, if you, if you're familiar with kind of any degree of influence or persuasion, sometimes just by telling somebody why you're doing it certainly helps, so we did that and we also still capture email because, you know, in a lot of our cases and a lot of campaigns we build for clients, it's really, you know, there's multiple ways to multiple modalities in terms of the contingencies that we need. So email, if they're not responding from SMS, then we've got emails. The fallback then to continue to follow up on, do you find that your clients tend to want as much information? No. I think I know the answer to this. They want as much information from the campaign as possible, but you'll probably find yourself advising them to almost like get it in stages probably.

Speaker 4: (29:31)
Yeah. I mean that's, that's probably one of the big things, big mistakes that people make when they, you know, start on their kind of journey and of building their business. You know, often their website has got, you know, littered with, you know, lots and lots of content and not really not really making kind of gating some of that content really to exchange that value for that for somebody who's information essentially you're not necessarily forcing but encouraging people to provide us their contact information in exchange for, for that for that lead magnet or piece of value. So, you know, for me, you've got to stagger things because you know, people will consume that information in lots of different ways. And in some campaigns we'll actually ask them how they'd like to receive it. You know, sometimes people are quite happy to watch it via video.

Speaker 4: (30:25)
Some people want it delivered in the post, some people want to have a phone call and of course people dependent upon the lead source and the traffic, it, you know, some people are going to be very cold, some people are gonna be warmer and some people are going to be hotter. You know, if they come from Google ad words and that they've gotten an intentional search towards something that they're specifically looking for something they do not want to download five things you need to know about whatever. They don't want that lead magnet. Now they want the information pack, they want the schedule call, they want to speak to somebody. Whereas our Facebook, if we're targeting some interest behaviors or different audiences, the traffic could be a lot colder because we're essentially interrupting them. And so we need to provide something more value in advance information first before we then take them to the next step.

Speaker 4: (31:14)
So it's providing that right amount of value that they need to get them to the next milestone or in some cases into a completely different campaign. So kind of a very cold campaign and then moving them into more of a warmer campaign with an additional bit of value. So, you know, maybe moving them from a video series in one campaign, then moving them into an automated webinar in the next campaign because we know that the more pre-qualify, you know, the more qualified they've consumed our information and then we can move into a point where we're asking, you know, there's a conversion point, an actual point wagon to ask for a sale or some you know, some next step towards Israeli.

Speaker 2: (31:57)
I know that the people listening to this. Okay, fantastic value out of what you've said and I'm sure there'll be that they'll have this podcast on loop for a little while just to digest the amount of value given, not Oli, the one thing that I picked up on earlier as a word that you use called motion and I don't know that it's one of those things that I just wonder how, how, how important it is in marketing funnels. I think I know the answer a little bit, but it'd be nice to hear what your view is of motion because does that lead to success?

Speaker 4: (32:35)
Yeah, I mean, my favorite quote is motion beats meditation so it's a good old Gary Halbert quote. So I like that. That's really more about not procrastinating. So rather than the main marketing for them. I think what, what's key about motion is that you don't want to stop somebody when they are in motion. Okay. So you don't want to preclude them from actually getting to the finish point you know, and some people are kind of hyper responders. They know what they want and they don't want any of those milestones being put up in their way to get to that point. And so, you know, this is one of the reasons why when we look at, you know, a classic kind of opt in funnel where they're opting in for a free report or something like that. We'll quite often on the thank you page, offer them some kind of liquidator offer or low end offer, maybe between $7 to $20 or you know, 10 to 25 quid to actually segment those people that are in motion.

Speaker 4: (33:45)
Between those people that are buyers. And those people that are elite, you know, in changing that relationship between a buyer and between a lead and a buyer changes everything in terms of what you can afford to do going forward and so you don't want to stop people when they're in motion. So no dad thank you pages. You know, we have that as a kind of a mantra in our agency. You know, there's not just a thing, Hey, thanks for download in. It's like, well, actually, if you're in motion, then why would we stop you? So here's, here's a chance to schedule a call. Here's a chance to buy, you know, a small, you know, the first module of our online membership, whatever it is, give them a splintered version, often of your core offer to be able to capture those people in that moment when they're in motion, as you quite rightly put it. I've seen a classic example of [inaudible], that's all I, the guys at digital marketer a few weeks ago, I saw something, it's a Facebook ad looked like a very interesting free download, downloaded it straight away. Those, on the page that I went to to get the download there was, Oh, you can buy whatever it was at $7 better version of what we're just offering you, which was almost a no brainer decision. Well, yes I am really interested in this or why wouldn't I go for the $7? Then they put in a very, very clever one, which was the, as you bought the $7 product, they gave you a free month membership of their big membership site, got you in there. And that the, the clear lead in was then, well, okay, you've seen all this stuff, wouldn't you like to give us $30 a month to stay in this?

Speaker 4: (35:29)
It's a very popular funnel and it works very well for them because their core offer, digital marketer labs you know, is a, as a natural upsell and there's lots of things that feed that and to kind of a preface of that particular funnel. You know, you've got to be giving good value in advance. Rarely. And so even before you get to the point of getting into the step that actually happens before you're often offered a lead magnet is actually driven to content, actually driving paid traffic to some form of ungated blog content, which is usually a premium kind of blog post, which, you know, most people would think, well I'm not actually, I'm paying to drive people to content, but then I'm not asking for their email address. So you know, I'm not actually building a less well yes, but then of course you've set a remarketing pixel and then you can remarket people back to a lead magnet that, that now is congruent with what they originally read. So again, you provided value in advance and, and you've offered something of value for their, your name, an email that's congruent with what you've already read. So, the step before that is very clear and there is a very clear path of, of how people can get through that funnel very effectively.

Speaker 3: (36:56)
I think the Facebook remarketing pixel is something that fits incredibly into what we're talking about here. I can think of so many of those contingency events that the webinar one, for instance, you got to the webinar landing page, but you never signed up for the webinar. While you do, you can have a retargeting pixel that simply says, okay, got to pay Jay, but we're not seeing him on page B. Let's send them another advert.

Speaker 4: (37:24)
Yeah, definitely. And, and, and the beauty really with building audiences off different pages is that you begin to build a picture of these buckets of these lists that then when you do have an offer or something that's new, you can very effectively drive tack traffic to in a very targeted way, which certainly means that you're going to have, you know, your conversion costs are going to be a lot lower and you know, works extremely well from that example. And it works very well with inside of funnel. We use a program to link between our infusion soft CRM system and Facebook audiences each dependent upon what a milestone they're at in the campaign. It's matched wave and sync to with that audience that's up there in Facebook so that we can provide a message that's congruent with where they are with the milestone that they next need to take. So, very, very effective and very affordable today actually. That's really one of the things that, you know, the podcast is all about the next 100 days and you've given us a fantastic FSMC framework actually, it's almost like a procedure as much as anything that people can actually implement that they can structure their thinking around for their campaigns. If you were to advise the listeners now as to how they can start thinking about getting onto this show, we said the critical path of F S M C where would you start? How would you advise people?

Speaker 4: (39:07)
Well, what I would say is, and I wanted to kind of get this it kind of in the hands of people that wanted to take some action on it really. So I'd, we put together a free infographic for people to download as an example. It's populated with an example there that, that people can look at and make understand and follow through and then they can continue to use that template and that worksheet rarely for them to design and craft their own campaigns within the FSMC formula. So, we can give you the link to that download instant access to it and that would be a great first step for anybody to begin to begin the process. Cause I think it puts the context around all of the things that we've spoken it out with a real life example that people can, you know, get, can take some things out off and then populate themselves as well.

Speaker 2: (40:11)
Wow. That would be absolutely fantastic. Have you got an idea of where we should go to find that knowledge?

Speaker 4: (40:17)
If you go to, Oliver that's Oliver Billson. We're two hours Forward slash F for Freddy, asked for Sierra and for Mike C for Charlie, FSMC so all of the bills forward slash FSCM you'll be able to get instant access to that download for you to follow. That's brilliant. So we put that link in the show notes.

Speaker 2: (40:49)
We certainly will. And you know, only one of the things that your famed for is, is, is keeping up to date with the latest tools. And I just wondered if you'd share with us some of the things that you, you think people are going to get really excited about because I know you love them and, and you use them really effectively within this framework, within your campaigns so can you give us an idea of say maybe the three things that we should be looking out?

Speaker 4: (41:16)
Yeah, definitely. So the first one that I would recommend would be, well, I'll preface what are the other things I'm about to say we are an, and I was probably one of the, the, the first people in the UK to have infusion soft many years ago. So we've been Infusionsoft users for a very, very long time. But actually the tools that I'm going to share with you aren't just integrated to infusion soft because not everybody's using infusion soft so these, these tools I'll share with you, I'd highly encourage you if you're not an infusion soft user to consider it, but the tools are relevant regardless. The first would be sync Sumo. A sync Sumo is a, a very, very effective way of sinking your lead ads. Those ads that we were talking about earlier directly into your CRM, autoresponder system, MailChimp, active campaign, whatever you may use, infusions off and creating contacts from those leaders.

Speaker 4: (42:22)
Because unfortunately Facebook didn't allow us a very easy integration. So that allows you to capture and move those, those contacts over into Infusionsoft automatically. And secondly, what it does very effectively is does that sinking of the audiences automatically between your CRM system and the Facebook audiences so that people can dynamically move through your funnel and you can automatically update those autumn audiences within Facebook. So very effective that sinks and you'd spell that. S. Y. N. C. S. U. M. O. That's right. You got it. Okay. And that's dot com. Is Yes, it's, it's run by a buddy of mine as many of these tools are as you'd expect with how much we use them called just in Lofton who's a very, very, very capable marketer. And, you know, he's very dialed into a lot of the things that we'd seen. He'd obviously recognize the problem rarely that, that he's now solved and it's, it's the most popular tool, rarely fought for the second tool that I'd highly endorse would be a tool called fix your funnel.

Speaker 4: (43:39)
Again, it's run by a couple of friends of mine, Ryan and Trent Chapman. And that tool is, they are bringing out an option available to, to more services, but it is very well integrated with infusion soft specifically and it does a number of things very well one of the things it does is provide a text-based SMS service at its, at its basic. So simply sending SMS is on triggers from your, your CRM system I'm sending broadcast SMS as well, but more importantly what it does is it does those conversation based text message as well. So you can actually lead capture people by saying text this number with this short code, not necessarily short code, but text you know, text a download to, you know whatever number and when they download that, it can ask you a series of questions on autopilot to capture your information. So it would say, great, thanks for requesting the worksheet. What's your first name? Question Mark. They text back in their first name. Great, thanks John, what's your email? So I can deliver the worksheet and then they tax back. And that could all happen on autopilot and additionally just as if it couldn't get any better they also have a way to create a humanized text conversation between maybe a sales rep or a customer support person where they, you can start with a conversation starter automatically and when they text back, that can be overtaken manually with somebody actually texting backwards and forwards as well. All LinkedIn and all the, all the text messages records going back into infusion soft, which is very, very effective as well. Wow. And you said the three so let, let me think about the third one, so I, I'm just thinking what would be very effective. So here's one that is so often people have hang ups with designing things and they get frustrated because, you know, every time they need to get something designed, they've got to, you know, go out there.

Speaker 1: (45:03)
And certainly Facebook advertising, which is very popular they get very frustrated and you know, they can spend a lot of money on stuff they don't, don't really like there's a, there's a service called design pickle and design pickle allows you to have unlimited graphic design for one monthly fee set monthly feel and I mean it's great for doing Facebook advertising and great for people just starting out if they haven't got an agency behind them, supporting them. So, that works extremely well. And that's just as it's spelled as it sounds. Yes. Design pickle yes. Is and I believe. Yeah. Yup. I'm just going to add one more in because I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't be honest time, Molly. Yes, absolutely. Ask for three and get four or, yeah. So, this is the fast action bonus and this is the I wouldn't be able to talk about the dynamic lead to customer experiences without talking about plus this plus this is a suite of add on features for Ontraport and also for infusion software originally began that allow you to create some really nice experiences.

Speaker 1: (46:28)
Things like evergreen I have a great date, countdown timers, page triggers you can do a recency frequency, monetary tracking lots and lots of really effective things. Real kind of Swiss army knife of, of different tools that are, that [inaudible] it's like a plugin to, to infusion soft. And that's right. You believe all the things that entrepreneur, entrepreneur and other, another CRM systems. Yeah. So and at this moment in time, they're in support of obviously infusion soft, but also now into the Ontraport field as well. Okay. Awesome. That's really useful. Thank you very much. You did Oli, you did not disappoint in one way at all. I mean, this was fantastic value. I'm so pleased that Kim recommend actually would've got round to you, that's for sure. And I've, but it's really, really nice to meet you.

Speaker 1: (47:25)
But, I think you'll agree, Kevin, what fantastic value. Absolutely brilliant. Absolutely brilliant value. Yes. How can people find out more about you, Oli? Yeah, sure. So we run a fairly effective blog on at all of the bills completely ungated. No, no opt in or anything like that you can go in and kind of read our weekly articles. We also run another podcast called path to purchase and again, we publish those on that blog as well, every Tuesday we release new blog articles with very high end quality content distilled from our experiences within our agency on the blog there every Thursday. So if people had over to they'll be able to where, find that content there and dig in and get some value from it. That's, that's fantastic. Oli, thank you so much for joining us on the next a hundred days. I think people are going to love this episode and love you for it good stuff. Thank you. Thanks Graham. Appreciate it. And Kevin, thank you. Thanks Oli.

Speaker 2: (48:35)
So Graham FSMC it's the way forward. I have to say Oli has made a very compelling case for a procedure to structure your thinking around marketing funnels. And you know, if you also take advantage of his download, which again, just from memory at can be got from all of the forward slash FSMC, then you'll be able to work through the implementation side of this over the next 100 days. So if you go to, then you will find a worksheet that will enable you to implement on the ideas all of us just walked us through what a great podcast, Kevin.

Speaker 2: (50:31)
Yes. And so, so implementable. We have something here that really is something that we should be looking at in the next hundred days. The power of looking at each stage of your sales funnel, each milestone, and then looking at the contingencies around what, what happens between milestones, what happens if we don't get people between milestone one and milestone two, what are the four or five things that might have gone wrong? And how can we do something about them? So powerful groom, it's logical or Kevin isn't it? Don't you think it's, it's complete. But you know, a lot of the reason that things don't work and for years people say, Oh well, you know, direct mail, we'll give you a 2% that the 98, 98% are not interested. Well, it's not really that at all then that maybe they're just not ready there's all kinds of reasons that they didn't or wouldn't respond to any particular time but you know, having a plan to follow up on, shall we say, the redundancy, those people who didn't follow the, the path, the critical path that Oli was talking to just makes sense and thinking not through. What will you do if they don't do it, I think is probably today's great value.

Speaker 1: (51:47)
Yeah. As you say, Graham, it is so simple and so logical, but quite often these things only seem simple and logical after somebody spells them out to you. Yeah, absolutely. And all is a brain is something to be reckoned with. He really does have a first class market in brain. And so you know, it can help you as well and one of the things that Oli is, he is actually a practitioner, so he does take clients on. So if you think that Oli can can be a benefit to you, then well, you know where to find him. So, you know, do you remains to mention the Facebook group, Graham, as we always do at this point. And please come over to Facebook and join the next a hundred days podcast, Facebook group and join in the discussion. Yeah. Under, if you can give us a five star review on iTunes, that would be fantastic. We really love them and we would appreciate you doing that. Okay. Well today I've been grandma Smith and I've been Kevin Applebee goodbye, goodbye.

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