You're listening to path to purchase a podcast for passionate and committed business owners and marketers, Oli Billson and Tom breeze are here to give you the tools and knowledge you need to grow your business and take decisive action. Welcome to the episode.
Speaker 2: (00:14)
Hey Oli, how are you doing? Hey, I'm good, thanks. Good, good, good I know that recently you were in Florida giving a presentation at the super conference for Dan Kennedy's, GKC and you, I didn't actually, I haven't actually heard the presentation just yet, so I want to be educated a little bit, but I know that you were talking about, increasing conversions and sales by 10 X in your business, using some clever strategies and techniques and even if you've got a really tiny list as well, like a real small list that you haven't yet built up yet or kind of like if you're currently building, et cetera. And, basically I just want you to kind of like give me the information and, and let me know a little bit more about what you are talking about and have a good conversation about it.
Speaker 3: (01:02)
Yeah. Cheers Tom. So, well first of all, it was an, it was an honor for me to talk at the super conference. I've been at a Dan Kennedy student for many, many years. In fact, my kind of, my journey began with GIC probably well over 10 years ago. In fact, kind of, 2006 was kind of a turning point for me in our business because we, eh, deployed some Dan Kennedy marketing and in our own business we were very brand orientated at that point. There are a lot of national advertising and we deployed this direct response stuff and it just totally transformed, the way that we did have everything going forward. So I felt kind of humbled, to a certain degree and the privilege really to get up on stage and talk to, to their community about, what we, what we've been doing and what we do now in terms of the agency and how we help people.
Speaker 3: (01:56)
And one of the questions I always get is, you know, how do I, kind of get the results of the gurus? The big guys, the people with the big lists, you know, and if I haven't got a big list either how do I grow a list and obviously how do I convert that list to, paying customers, clients, patients, whatever it may be. And, the scientist is that you don't actually have to have a big list to get big results and it's a common misconception that actually most businesses don't always need a big list. People always use the term, the money's always in the list. And, you know, that that's some of the greed that might be true to some businesses, but in our businesses we've been very effective at converting those people are less, even in small quantities to paying customers. And we, we take people through our process in the way that we do that.
Speaker 2: (02:57)
So interesting. Okay. But let's like, cause I know from my personal experiences, like I, in my, in this business of the agency that I run, we have a very small list we have people, actually I should kind of clarify that for the actual agency list. It's very small because we don't do that much kind of like direct promotion directly for the agency. But through our training products and our workshops, et cetera, we pick up a lot of people through that way and some of them might want to upgrade to for latency as opposed to learning how to do it themselves. So, we, we don't really have that much promotion going on the agency. A lot of it is through referral, et cetera but I'd be really interested to see how you, kind of like some of the strategies and techniques that you use to build the agency.
Speaker 2: (03:37)
Because from my standpoint, I know that I can't use, if I'm looking to one day, maybe sell the business or at least franchise the business and anything like that, I know that I need to have those revenue streams all of those traffic streams without me being the person that message. It's like have those like constant clients and customers coming through without having to be my personalities. Bringing it in. It's the agency doing the job forward, but it doesn't need a huge list. It just needs quality as oppose and hopefully we'll talk about that stuff. But just out of interest, I did [inaudible] the super conference you were speaking at what were the audience like? There were, I mean with there kind of like those sorts of people were kind of like people that were looking to build a business or they'll already have very successful business or a mix or, yeah, I think I'm actually quite broad predominantly bricks and mortar businesses, real business owners and a number of bricks and mortar business owners that actually are looking to move into maybe the information marketing space to create a business within a business. There seems to be quite a few people that, that were quite interested in doing that. Some people that are at a point where they're looking to scale their business, all of the common topics of conversation came out from kind of, my, my time now just speaking to different people where they were, what they were looking to get out of the conference really are quite broad you know, most people I would say, were fairly educated. I mean the fact that they were there, it's how you a little bit about them, they understand the principles of direct response and direct marketing and they know the value of being able to deploy those types of strategies in their business.
Speaker 3: (05:10)
So, I have to say, by the way, just as just a side note, anybody that kind of, you know, doesn't think going to conferences and taking some time out of your business is, is a, is a good use of your time is very, very much mistaken in the world that we live in, where there's online courses or membership websites and products being launched. You know, it's always really important to invest into your own education and professional and personal development. I get that. But, taking some time out your business, going and attending these types of events, is hugely, hugely valuable and I know this sounds a bit crazy and I know that it seems a bit maybe far removed from our audience, but for us it's a big deal. I met a guy over the toaster while I was toasting my bagel who, has a chain of clinics over here in the UK. They're looking to do something with their marketing, and they're now employing our services to help them scale, that their business. So know who you're going to meet. Right.
Speaker 2: (06:16)
I love the fact that you had to go all the way to Florida to meet someone in the UK person who, yeah, it's crazy. But yeah, no, certainly. So kind of the, this kind of topic as I mentioned had been predicated mainly on our own results and what we done and kind of, we've done a lot with a little, and I think that that kind of notion kind of led me back to, well, why have we been successful? What did we do that was so profound that made them such a big impact? And, that really, took me back to, to, to, to really just evaluating stuff really the, the, the, the core of what I'm going to talk about is creating a dynamic lead to customer experience. And you don't really hear about that very often because people often, you know, when I talk about the best traffic strategy or they want to talk about the mass conversion strategy or they want to talk about a tool or an app or something that helps them get more business. Why I like to talk about is creating that perfect journey, that perfect experience for some of the day that they are going to go through as part of being either on your list as a, as a new subscriber, as an existing unconverted lead and how you ultimately convert.
Speaker 2: (07:40)
Perfect. So this is for new traffic as well as existing database traffic as well. So yeah, and actually here's like the absolute, like the, the big, big deal is that, this sort of strategy works really well to convert an existing house list or how, you know, a list of unconverted leads that you have, which most people have in that business. But once you've done this kind of promotion, you've done this kind of work that I'm going to kind of go through it. It also then lends itself really well to create that into a perpetual evergreen asset that can work 365 days a year, 24, seven on all say pilot to bring people through to conversion point before you, you know, put them onto more of a long term nurture process. So works really well for both.
Speaker 2: (08:26)
Well, so I'm going to listen again and we're asking questions and taking notes, my own business as well. So, I want to let you kind of go on and I'll ask you questions as I go. Yes, I do that. So, yeah, yeah. Ho, you know, pull the reins back. Yeah, I'm gonna let you go. I'm just gonna let you kind of like go like lyrical about it. Yeah. So I know that, you know, you know, probably this may come across, you know, this is, my, this is really is my thing of where I sit and, to, to, to honestly we're probably going to split this over probably a couple of other podcasts and things we're going to do so this is kind of going to kind of give people some real actionable things they can take away. But we are going to go a bit deeper into this. I'm [inaudible], I'm a mother episode. So, the question I get asked obviously is what's working now, what can I do now to optimize themselves and conversions? And here's the truth. Nothing has changed. Everything is the same that every direct response and direct marketing has been doing for ever in a previous episode I was talking about this modeling some ads that were from the 1930s getting the hooks and looking at, the copy and the offers and what they were doing, it really isn't any different.
Speaker 3: (09:42)
You know, T T the whole landscape of conversion in that regard so there's nothing new under the sun and there certainly aren't any silver bullet to making this work quicker, faster, stronger, you know, it just doesn't exist. There's always people coming out with courses and things that they want to offer you and provide to you, that they think would be valuable to you. Predominantly, the majority of them are all predicated on exactly the same matter that I'm going to speak about here. So, we just take it back to his basic sounds. OK. message a market message, media, the alignment of having, a message to, so having, identifying a market, identifying an audience, and then getting a message that resonates with that, that that audience, that they want to take compels them to take some sort of action and delivering that through some kind of media is the absolute basics of marketing.
Speaker 3: (10:45)
It's the fundamentals Dan Kennedy, GIC call it the results, the marketing triangle. And, that's really where everything starts here. And really it's kind of the difference between having a, doing this work allows you to target that audience, that market with the sniper rifle rather than a shotgun. So, if you think about that, just, just theoretically, you know, what you really want is a, a sniper rifle, but it's almost like a machine gun that you can just hit your target audience and, and, and, ideal customer between the eyes, you know, over and over and over again to get as many clients as you'd like repeatedly and predictably rather than this kind of a shotgun approach of, you know, kind of not only with a shock and just did I was, you know, bullets, cartridges, whatever you call them, they don't go very far. They spray in your, you know, people that just spray their message out there, genuinely just don't get very good conversions and you know, that kind of adage of, you know, you throwing shit at the wall and something will stick. Not many people have got the budgets to be able to afford to do that.
Speaker 2: (12:02)
That's like a brand awareness type approach. Yet. It's like, you know, so it's funny, it's like that's something we talked about, recently in, in a, in an episode where we were talking about kind of like TV advertising does the same thing as like having a TV ad and what brands like to do or just bombard as many people as possible they think would kind of be relevant. So it's just like a mass message to a mass audience whereas the way to do it on YouTube is to say, right, it's one viewer behind a screen who's, who's shown intent. And so it's like that sniper rifle targeting that one individual, knowing what their pains are, what their desires are, and then giving them that. Right?
Speaker 3: (12:37)
Yeah, definitely. And of course, you know, we're served so well today with lots of media. So if you take the basics of that marketing triangle, you know, there's lots of media that we can use, and lots of things that we can do to get our message in front of the audience. The fact is that a lot of people start with media sometimes and they, often also start with the market and sorry, start with a message and actually you, you really, really need to be clear of who your, who you really are trying to engage with and so that good quality customers, because the thing is, is that you decide on who your customer is. I spoke to one of my clients in the day and he was so unhappy with this client of his, and I'm like, dude, like it's your client.
Speaker 3: (13:26)
So you chose them. You don't have to accept everyone. And he's like, but, but, and I'm like, all of the problems you've got in your business, customer service wise, it's cause you just, the marketing, you're marketing to the wrong people dude. Like you can convert them affordably, but they're not engaging in repetitive transactions. They're not ascending into more higher paying programs. So it actually, you know, when you look at business sometimes you sometimes come to realize, I've actually got some, you know, maybe this resonates with something like that, you know, some pretty crappy customers. But you chose them, you marketed, you got them, you sold to them, and you've got to take a bit of responsibility for that. And so I'm taking people through this process I'm going to talk about is, is, is, is really important and we've got to, this still are down to the basics first. Right? Right.
Speaker 2: (14:18)
Do you know what there's, do you know that Jason Swenk, yeah, so I was on a podcast with him recently and we're chatting and he reminded me of something that you said when we actually met in San Diego and he said to me, there's no such thing as a bad customer, although we know there is like if you have a bad customer, you know, you know what that's like it's, there's no such thing as a bad customer. There's other bad prospects or about process, which makes it like, it's so true. You shouldn't be taking those clients that are bad customers. Right yeah, it's kinda like really resonated with me. I was like, yeah, it's, it's not like I think a lot of business guys say, Oh, how did I end up with this customer? And like, right, it's like you chose to have that customer and you know what I mean? So I completely resonate with that.
Speaker 3: (15:00)
And the truth is, is actually what your marketing is supposed to do is as well as compel people to take action is also repel people. At the same time, you want to create, these kinds of messages that actually try and push people away intentionally from you, because of the fact that they are going to be crappy customers for you. You know? So, here's the thing, and this, this, this kind of goes along the same lines as, as if we were having a conversation in the pub, for example, okay, and I've got this promotion, this campaign, whatever it might be, I want to try and sell to you the advantage I've got over a face to face conversation is that I can pivot and move that conversation based upon what you tell me, what questions I ask, what the questions that you answer, but also by your body language, probably by a number of other things, that, that give me some indication whether or not what I'm saying is working or not to try and get you to buy from me.
Speaker 3: (16:08)
Does that make sense?
Speaker 2: (16:09)
Yeah. Show you you've got the feedback, immediate feedback from somebody.
Speaker 3: (16:12)
Yeah, sure now by me probing for answers and getting clarification on different things allows me to move the conversation to a place or move it forward to a place where I can begin to ask for the sale and so you start to understand that I actually, I understand you and obviously the point where people understand, you know, a person thinks that they understand someone else or somebody else understands them rather, you know, they get this guy understands me, right? You know that he must now if he's offering me this, then that's a good thing for me because I get it and he gets it and he gets me. Well, the problem is that works fine in a one to one situation because you can adapt the way that you speak to people, but when you do that in a one to many situation, that becomes a lot more difficult, especially with an email marketing list or an offline mailing lists off a mailing list of some description you're going to communicate offline. You don't know, you can't be there when that person picks up the mail to change the copy in the headline. Okay. You can't be there when that message shows up in their inbox and it's going to talk very directly to them to have the maximum impact. You just can't do that. But I'm hoping that you've got a solution to this. Well, yeah, there is a solution so by, one thing that we're able to work in certainly are, certainly in today's day and age, if we are able to effectively collect data and we are effectively able to profile people, so that we can better understand them rather than this kind of shotgun approach, we can be very, very direct, like a sniper rifle and be very, very clear on who we want to be how we're talking to people you're saying that you can always have an individual conversation with each one of those people based on what information you've gathered from them and therefore you can market to those people individually. Yeah, definitely. And I think this is the thing that, you know, a lot of people would agree with this, that not all of their customers are exactly the same.
Speaker 3: (18:23)
They may have slightly different problems and challenges and obstacles that they need to overcome and that's, that's the solution that you're serving to them but if you were able to provide a bespoke or unique, tailor made, message to them, the likelihood is that more people will convert. It's just a question of how you actually do that when you're not holding one-to-one conversations with people. Now you to allow us to be able to do that. And without getting really deep into all that granular stuff, the fact is that we can automate and personalize that through behavioral based marketing and that allows us to talk directly to people. So, we were then able to segment those people, who we want to talk to in a certain way we can also segment them based upon how they're engaging with us.
Speaker 3: (19:17)
So, you know, if you keep asking somebody to buy from you and they're not buying from you, you need to change the conversation, right? You're not going to just keep on sending the same email series again and again, or you're not going to send that broadcast out to that same batch or that group. Again, you're gonna talk to them differently. You're also going to spend more money on the people that you are that are engaging with you more. So if they're engaging with you more than you might want to think about sending direct mail or something more expensive to them because you know that they are engaging, you might also want to make sure that you actually have more timely promotions and offers to those people because of the fact that it's the right time. They reached a threshold within your campaign that now is the right time to ask for the sale.
Speaker 3: (20:01)
So you get that, that match, that right message at the right time to get the right conversion and by, by not only making that automated but the bet by being able to do it on a behavioral base in a behavioral way, we can take into consideration for so many different things that increases conversions. So my, my kind of quote and it, I guess you could say our nectar from Isaac Newton, I don't know. But, is that for every action or inaction there is a reaction. Okay. So, it's, it's really about, when you are identifying who have that, who to talk to you directly, you need to understand what the contingencies are. If they don't do what you want them to do. Okay. And that might be because we need to segment them and salt them and move them into some kind of different communication channel. It's so important that you actually do do that otherwise you know you're going to waste a whole lot of money and you're missing out, leaving a whole load of money on the table because you haven't got that built into your marketing campaigns. And the truth is if you, even if you've got a small less, imagine you are able to segment that list however big it is, into buckets of say let's just say three different profiles of people. So I'll give you a very specific example.
Speaker 2: (21:32)
Can we, can we just back up just for a second? So, so basically what you're doing is you're saying, the conversation you would like to have with the prospects would be like down the pub. Cause you can, you can change your feedback, right? So you can see what they're saying and you can ask them questions. And because of that conversation there, you're so much more likely to get a conversion because if you do actually have something of value that's going to help someone, you're basically is a, is a who can be an effective communicator, will get the deal basically. And what you're saying is like when, when you're looking at a bigger audience or it doesn't have to be a big audience, but it's more like a, an online audience and you're developing that relationship with the database or most of those people in there.
Speaker 2: (22:08)
Are you saying you're kind of like mapping out where you think this conversation could lead and you're kind of leading the conversation and based on people's behavior, if they don't take action, you change the conversation. Or if they do, it's like they might have attended a webinar, go all the way through. It didn't necessarily buy. And so you'd have a contingency place. Like you'd say, okay, there was something about the offer that wasn't competitive like right for you or, and as a result, we're going to do this instead, or do what I mean like, so you've got some communication and stead and almost like playing it out, like you are still in the pub almost, but just knowing that you're going to be leading that conversation and changing as a result of their behavior.
Speaker 3: (22:44)
Yeah. Right. And th th th and, and that's exactly right. And the problem with email automation, regardless of whatever platform you use, infusion soft or otherwise, you know, the fact is, is the, you know, people can get carried away with trying to create these evergreen automated campaigns and they actually, you lose touch with the fact that they don't make a good enough effort and don't do the work to map out the perfect customer journey and, what the experience, the person goes from, from becoming a lead, or being an existing lead and getting them to buy. There's so many parts of that and, and when we do these types of campaigns, we say what's the shortest distance that somebody can go from here to buying what then the worst case scenario. So what happens if they like literally this just doesn't work at what's the journey that they go on and the bit in between is really the sandwich is the, you know, how can we sprinkle some behavioral based marketing to get people to buy by tracking that clicks video consumption them is asking them some questions about who they are, demographic, psychographic stuff.
Speaker 3: (24:06)
Knowing if logins to a map and ship website, you know, how, how recent and frequent are they at taking actions that we want them to take lead scoring them and all these more complicated and granular stuff. Taos is a lot about somebody that provide profile that will end up speaking to very directly and ultimately getting back conversion.
Speaker 2: (24:26)
And I love this. This is so cool because I bet you there's so many people out there who fall foul of this and like no it no, no. From a conceptual idea like yeah, really if I had someone in front of me, I'll have a conversation like this and this is kind of how the conversation would go. And they go online, they think, right. There's people who are kind of interested on my database and now I'm going to do is I want to send three bits of good content, maybe in a blog post or maybe a webinar or something like that and then sell. And there'd be like one they buy and like I left without confusion. But it's almost like the way I'm thinking about it right now is like, if I was to buy a watch, so I've recently bought the Apple watch and if, when, when it came to making that decision, it was almost like I went down.
Speaker 2: (25:12)
Well, I, I did my research online, saw it sorta looked like, and it was like the vision of it was important for me to begin with. Then a little bit of functionality. But if I'm know myself deep down it was like, I just want to be cool. That's just me being honest with myself and then I went down to the store and I wanted to try it on. I wanted to play around with it. So that feeling thing about it. And then I wanted to have a little bit of convincing because it's probably more expensive than it needs to be in terms of, I know it's overpriced but I'm going to buy it anyway so I want a better convincing sort of thing. And there's that as that logical steps I need to go through in order to buy the watch. Whereas I reckon if it was a normal business owner had been like, here's a feature of the watch, here's something that's cool about this, watch his like, and it might not tap into the conversation I need to have in order to make the purchase I love the fact that you can like mapping that out, almost mapping out that conversation first, knowing what those points are and I don't know how you do it in terms of the behavioral responses. I'm conceptually, I can understand there's tools and stuff that can help with that, but I'm, I'd love to kind of find out a bit of the nitty gritty of like specifically how you would do that with a client.
Speaker 3: (26:15)
Yeah, sure. I mean it's, this fell off is, is, is really the, the nuts and bolts of having an effective marketing campaign and a campaign that ultimately then can be conserve you really well in the future as an evergreen asset for the business. And that's where most of our, we've, we've got an automated webinar campaign we spoke about before it's been since, 2013 about 1.4 million pounds in revenue. And actually if I look at the, if I, if I did the calculation on the number of attendees to that webinar and how much money we've made per head, it's ridiculous. But the reason why it's ridiculous is because we have those contingencies in place to be able to talk very directly to people based upon what they actually did. Because not everybody takes the same path. And if you give up on people, if you give up on, those leads that are on your database, now there's a reason why they're not buying from you.
Speaker 3: (27:14)
And people will only buy when they want to, not when you want to make sales. So, you've got to, you've got to understand that, you know, not everybody opens emails these days, so what are you going to do about it? Okay it's not as I've been looking at it. Yeah. So what are you going to do about it? That's a fact. I mean, open rates are going up, coming down you know, service providers, platforms are finding it more difficult to deliver email and you know, unfortunately that's the, the, the harsh realities of where we are. So regardless of what the message you are trying to put in front of people, you've got to find ways, mediums of conversing them. The fact is, is that that can be expensive if you don't have the right message to market match in the first place to get into a Ford Jewy South.
Speaker 3: (28:06)
The opportunity of talking very directly to them. So, I'll give you just one example and, and, and, and I think it's something that everybody could probably understand and understand how it works. So we have a, a campaign that we've run for clients and they speak to three different profiles of people. One is that somebody that's looking for a full time, business opportunity, they're looking to quit their existing job or maybe they'd been made redundant, whatever it might be. They're looking for a full time business. Yup. Second is that they're looking for a part time business. They are looking for supplementary income that they can run alongside what they already do. And the third type of people is that they want to bolt onto something that they already do something with synergy with their existing business. They want additional income stream.
Speaker 3: (28:54)
Now, if like most people we had an offer, a lead magnet, a self liquidating offer, a sales page, a sales letter, whatever mechanism we want a webinar, a video series, it's safe to say that those three groups to people, you're going to speak to them completely differently because you know, they, they want to understand that you understand them and that you have got something that's going to serve them all. Ultimately the product is the same. The products is exactly the same. It's serves them perfectly, but they have got to believe that it is going to do their investment justice. So what we do is a, I'm just going to show you this in terms of a sales letter. When somebody ops in, okay, so this is like a house list promotion. When we drive people to the landing page, to the squeeze page, we ask them the question surprisingly, which one of these, which one of these, which one of these is more interesting to you or represents your situation?
Speaker 3: (29:58)
The backs. Which one now based on just the, this is just an example, very simply of one example. How you can use this. We then send them to three different sales pages. Now one of the sales pages, the sales letter, the core sales that it was exactly the same, but for every single one of the different types of avatars, different types of profiles, we changed the headline, we changed the subhead guidance, the opener. We changed the bullet, the bullet benefits for features and benefits. We changed the testimonials to overcome their specific objections and we changed the PS we change all of those elements within the sales that I direct present the features, benefits and talk very directly to those different types of people. And we changed the video sales letter at the top of the page to have three different video sales letters talking very directly to those people is that, and that's quite a simple way of doing it, isn't it? It's like you just like segmenting that traffic into three different ways, whether they want to be full time, part time or a bolt on. And then the message you have in the sales letter is almost like it's exactly the same to a certain extent. Is PR promoting the same type of products. Right. But it's just phrased in a different way and the way that you would speak to someone in the pub.
Speaker 3: (31:14)
Right, exactly. You've got it. You've got this one thing that you're talking to, but you're just going to pivot slightly one way or the other and overcome their objections and challenges to get them to the point where they're ready to make a decision and all of the followup that goes on after them be it, testimonials, be it the direct mail package that goes out in the post afterwards. All of it's personalized and customized specifically for that audience. Cause I just want to know, so you've got, you send that sales letter in the post the same way as you say, online is going to resonate with you and you're going to go other people like this have been where I am or the people lost their job. Other people wanted to make this a full time sustainable income. So like that talks I read directly to them and it's a, it's a total win and so what happens if you, if there's some information that you would love to have but it's not going to be easy to get from someone just by an online questionnaire. Like I'd imagine if I was down the pub and I was speaking to someone and let's just say for example, I had a business opportunity and that person was looking to go full time and find a new product to sell or have a new business venture. I know if I was one-to-one with them I could probably ask them like, so what happened your last job? And I could probably ask them that question and they're like, do you know I got fired or I got, I got laid off or the business went under and therefore I've got, I've had to focus on a new career or whatever and I could imagine that would happen.
Speaker 2: (32:40)
Cause I said I'm kind of a personal connection. It wouldn't be a comfortable conversation necessarily to start off with. But you've got a bit of rapport. You'd want that information really. Right. Yeah. I would like to have that information if I can, because it's going to really structure how, I'm not joking. It's like I genuinely care about that customer and like know that I can provide a good service to that person, but at the same time it's like that information would be really handy to know how to sell a product so to speak. Yeah. If you're grouping people together as well to feel, Oh, hold on a minute. There's a lot of people that have actually got this same challenge. Yeah, yeah, that's true actually. So I suppose if you asked like three questions and then like 90% of people said it's this, you'd be like, Oh, right, okay, well that's going to change things a little bit when it comes to my selling from future or like a whole different products.
Speaker 2: (33:20)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Just like change everything but so, so is there a way in which you, are you clever about things you do ask things in a clever way or how would you ask that? So I know I've been asked, how much do I spend on advertising? And you know, can you answer that straight off the out the gate [inaudible] yeah. I don't want to say I spend over a million a year on advertising because then I know that the message is going to be like, here's this product that's worth like $50,000 where I probably could have spent $5,000 or something so I feel like I'm, I hold some information back sometimes from the marketer because he's very experienced. Is there a way around that? Is there some clinical questioning or something? Yeah, there is.
Speaker 3: (33:58)
And I'm going to just give, I'm going to give two strategies. One is like, I'm here to give you my back, like to help everybody and give you my best stuff. So here we go. You're right. That's what it's asking the right question. That's exactly, I was going to say thanks for that. Yeah, you can just give us one like good stuff now. Thanks so yeah, so, we have one way of doing this, which works extremely well I'm going to try and explain it for through a podcast. It's difficult to, to hopefully people visualize this. Well, I want you to visualize is that there is a block of coffee maybe a story, imagine a story but with, with pieces missing blanks in the story. Okay? And there might be five or six blanks in this block of copying, within this story. And so what you can do is you can write the copy. We're intentionally leaving blank spaces that you get the prospect to fill in. Okay? So you can say, hi, my name is blank Oli. Okay I got to this page because I was looking to explore how I could leverage YouTube as an advertising platform. At the moment I spend blank on Google AdWords, Facebook advertising.
Speaker 3: (35:25)
Awesome thing else then you could go into ask more, more specific topics about what I'm looking for is an agency that I could spend around blank her mum to help me execute these, these, tactics within my business so that within the block of copy and your blank spaces, if they fill those out and click the submit button, you've now taken that information into your database and you've done it in a very clever way to that that most people feel like they're part of that story and they, it's almost like I know what you're doing. That's quite clever. I like it, you know? But it's quite cool. It's quite a cool way of doing it. And it's not just like an opt in box where you've got radio buttons and tick boxes. You've actually got a block of copy with those fields actually blank after eight.
Speaker 2: (36:18)
Yeah. So, so, from a user perspective, you're going to see like a paragraph of text on a page and instead of answering questions like how much do you spend on advertising, it's almost put into some sort of content where you just fill in the blanks and you're, I'm going to click there and say, well I spend this much and I tell you what, that would make me feel if I was going through it. Make me feel like this is actually going to genuinely help the person that's going to read this to find a better product for me. If that makes sense. Yeah. I love that. I love, I can see how that would work and how I would respond definitely to that than if it was like, here's the question. Fill in your answer in this box because now we're going to market to you slightly differently.
Speaker 3: (36:57)
Yeah. And instead is that easy to do that because you do want that, that information from them and you know, data's useful, but you've got to know you've got to use it responsibly and you've got to use it in the right way. And so, you know, you've got to understand what are the questions and lead me to really getting it, getting underneath this, you know, getting the neath the real problem so that I can really help them. And sometimes you've got to understand that people aren't always going to tell you the real problem. So it takes some time sometimes to get perhaps people pass pass some, some barriers that people might get put up to give you the real answers. And a good way to do that is also part of consumption. So if somebody is watching a video and it's about a Pacific specific topic, 50 or 70% of the way through the video, because if, especially if it's a blog video, 10 12, 15 minute video, you know that they're engaged because they're still watching yet you can have things now popper, at a specific point to ask them a question.
Speaker 3: (37:58)
So if we know that they watched a video, mainly a content based video, you wouldn't do it on a sales video, but on a, on a content page video that they get, they get so far, you can then have something that says, Hey, while you're here, what was the biggest problem that you're trying to solve? What's the biggest, what are the three biggest problems that you're trying to solve in your business right now and then the next one would be, now how big is your list you know, are you an infusion soft user? All the stuff that's going to give it away for is this person somebody that you want to engage and work with so that works very well. Those are two really nice tactics of being able to see that. And there are more of course, but I think that then we can probably save those for at the time.
Speaker 2: (38:41)
Another episode. Yeah, I love it. I think that, I think I can see those strategies working really well. I know that one of the things that we do in the agency, being a cost per acquisition agency, so we only charge when we're getting results for clients. Like nothing upfront when we generate a lead for a client, when we generate a customer for a client, we get paid on that front. But it's always like that conversation that has to happen early up, door out front where it's like, how much are you prepared to pay for a lead? And obviously the client wants to say as low as possible and we want them to say as high as possible to a certain extent making sure that we meet in the middle of somewhere that everyone's already happy. And normally nine times out of 10 clients are really happy with that because if it was like we're working with them as opposed to for them and it's, it's a different relationship that we have with them and we're advising them on how to create the videos and all this, that stuff.
Speaker 2: (39:27)
So we, we, we are invested in their staff and we want to get the very best result and get everyone will get paid handsomely. And it was we used to kind of just pose that question like, what are you prepared to pay, pay for police and that was always like candidates, really long discussion. And so now I just say, look, for the first four weeks, you want to give us all profits sort of thing. It's just within us. We're spending our money, so just give us all profits and it'd be a trust basis. And the fact that you want to tell us what that number is and if it doesn't work out, then to four weeks doesn't work out. It very often does. And it very rarely doesn't. But then you can always meet in the middle there.
Speaker 2: (40:00)
Cause I know my numbers, they'll know their numbers and then we can meet in the middle where everyone's really happy making a lot of money. You can scale up and optimize from there. But it was, it took a long time for me to work out how to phrase that. And I suppose it's a similar thing what you're doing now, you're kind of like putting it into a paragraph to fill out, that makes it feel like, actually I'm giving you information, but hopefully this information is gonna help you serve better as opposed to, I'm giving you information so you can market to me. Like, which is a very different relationship there. And it's, it's, it's a way of just getting the same information but done in an arrogant way, which I love.
Speaker 3: (40:34)
Yeah. And there's not a lot of people that are doing it that way you can also use that tactic on opt in forms to increase conversion as well. So you can say, hi, my name is blank, which is for first name and my best email, not the one, you know, and then you put like not the one that I just give to marketers, you know, my email is this one. No really, it really is this one. You know, you can play with the copy a little bit and that works really, really super well, to drive conversion as well. So make sure it's formatted on a mobile properly. It just preface that. Yeah, good point. But, that's, that's good. And I think in a later episode I want to dive deeper into the, kind of avatars and how we'll we can, we can kind of look at avatars and, and how you can start creating customer profiles.
Speaker 2: (41:26)
Mainly the content has been awesome as always, when it's with you, what's the, I'm so if someone's listening and cause I, we shared a lot of information there let's kind of give them that bit of an action plan. So someone's listening and they're like, cool, what do I need to do next? Could be like two minutes there or something.
Speaker 3: (41:42)
Sure. So first thing is to get clear and organize what you want to have happen. So understand where you want to try and get to start with the end in mind. Consider what the milestones are that people need to go through to get to you in the shortest distance possible. Okay, cool. Along that process, you want to collect the right information, each milestone to be able to drive conversion. Okay. You also want to consider a worst case scenario. So if they don't do anything, where does that lead is what are the contingencies if they don't do what we want to do and the sandwich in the middle is while, okay, now that we've got the best case and the worst case scenario, how do we create the experience? Which for the majority is going to be the majority of people. So what's the experience that we need to create, create those contingencies to do behavioral-based tracking, to create humanized followup.
Speaker 3: (42:39)
And probably do some kind of multimedia followup, not just email followup as well. And then the third part is monitoring. Measuring. So what are the indicators that tell us what's going on with that campaign? What segments of people or how many do we have in this booklet? How many people do we have in this book yet and to put those into a dashboard or in a way that we can report on them effectively so that we can understand who we've got in our database that we can start talking to, and putting messages in for itself. And then once we have that, got a good grasp of the ROI for the campaign and then start scaling it up. But in the three main things, get clear and organized. Create the, create a, a dynamic lead to customer experience and monitor and measure your results.