Speaker 1: (00:00)
You're listening to path to purchase a podcast for passionate and committed business owners and marketers, Oli Billson and Tom breeze are here to give you the tools and knowledge you need to grow your business and take decisive action. Welcome to the episode.

Speaker 2: (00:14)
It's Tom Breeze and also Oli Billson. How are you doing? Yeah, very good. Thank you. And today what we'll be talking to you about is, I suppose there's not necessarily a title to this, but more like the factor of like knowing, liking and trusting somebody and that indoctrination, behind taking someone who's maybe not heard of us before to the point in which they really do know, like, and trust us, become a customer and keep on buying from us as well. And so Oli, I'm gonna pass over to you at this point because I know that, you are like a kind of a very, very intelligent and clever guy when it comes to like getting people within the funnel to really build that relationship with people and I kind of want to just grill you on a few things about what's working right now, what have you seen that's like, that you can do to really get into their, like the hearts and minds of your customers. And I'm kind of like maybe some strategies that people that are listening in to this or watching the podcast stroke video that we're doing right now and any advice that you would potentially provide on that front as well.

Speaker 3: (01:13)
Yeah. Cool. Thanks mate so, I thought you were actually gonna say you're really good at getting people to do what you want them to do. I thought that's true as well. We would like so close to it and then you just stopped. So, Oh, sorry. Can you start us on again?

Speaker 3: (01:29)
So, okay, cool. So, yeah, I mean, look, we, you know, we have, everybody knows, you know, I mean, if you've been around in marketing for any length of time, if you read any books like your, you know, Robert Cialdini or you know, about influence, you'll know that, you know, no liking and trusting somebody before you engage in a, you know, a, you know, a transaction with them is something that you know needs to happen you can't just go in cold and sales to people, you know, that just doesn't happen. And last, you know, there's an exact match for what they want. It's just not immediately, you know, it just didn't happen unless you intentionally going to buy something. You know, often we have to build relationships as marketers and we have to be able to do that in a way, that, you know, solidifies a lot of stuff.

Speaker 3: (02:19)
So indoctrination is a big part of that. Now, in recent times, you know, with, products and courses like Ryan dices and digital marketer who, who make some amazing, amazing, amazing, courses and products a lot of that is predicated on their results and their success that they do in that own businesses as well. And, you know, pretty much if I had a pound for every client that's come to me that's wanted us to implement something like the machine in their business or they love the idea of being indoctrinated in sequence and they, you know, the email marketing machine that they promote, you know, I could be a rich man. We do do that. A lot of people. But indoctrination isn't a series of emails, you know, that that's what a lot of people think. It's not, it is, really, an indoctrination strategy is what really needs to be employed within most people's businesses in their funnels, in their campaigns to be able to get the best results from them.

Speaker 3: (03:21)
When I think about indoctrination, you know, it really, really comes down to your core story and this really, as a small business owner, this plays directly really into, how can you, how you can leverage that because you have your own story. You have your company story, you have your own story that you can tell and you can talk about your identity, your history, where you come from, and a lot of those things a lot of those principles, that unique kind of picture you're painting for somebody, you know, allows people to have affinity towards you as some empathy, hand has, some things that are congruent with maybe their situation or their problem or where they are now and how you've overcome those problems and ultimately how now you might get to provide a solution to them.

Speaker 3: (04:21)
So you can't replicate some of the story. It's just not something that you can do. Everybody's got unique story. Everybody's got a unique background. Everybody's got a different opinions and that have shaped them. And, that's something that you can ever take away from somebody. So, you know, when it comes down to people in your marketplace that you may perceive to be your competitors, well, your story is often your unique advantage, your competitive advantage that differentiates you. And I'm not a lot of people use that as an asset and I don't know why, to be honest with you.

Speaker 2: (04:54)
Okay. Because this is really an interesting topic for me because I know that I've got a variety of different clients as you do. And I know that story is a, is a key part of a kind of like a customer wanting to do business with somebody else and the story, if you get it right, and it is kind of just pulling out the parts of the story that you need to pull out, then you can't really build that connection with people what about like with lots of different types of businesses? So let's say for example, I can see it from a marketer's perspective, like if someone wants to buy something from me, if they know a little bit more about me and I've got a family with kids, et cetera, not that I like to use that content because I know deep down that's getting someone close to a purchase.

Speaker 2: (05:34)
But, I don't like to use that information sometimes like that, but, but it, it, people love it when they do hear about that and build more of a, of a picture of me as a, as a brand with it, which is really important, but let, let's take it out of the marketing world for a second. Let's say for example, you're selling a physical product or you are, let's say an accountant for example. I know in a previous, we still talk about accounts and so that's why it's fresh in the mind. But, say for example, you're selling physical products. I've seen people like, like, Dyson, doing the, the, the, the vacuum cleaners, et cetera is that kind of, is that good? Is that a good way of like bringing out your story or is there, so the way to do that with the brands do it like dice and that, and also Mac have done this very well. Apple, Apple, I say Mac, you know, it's just so cool. You already, yeah is it that it's working so well they've done this so well is, is actually what their brand as a company stands against first. That's like a big, big deal. So it's, it's what they stand against that gives them their unique advantage. So often if you remember, I kind of viral videos that Apple did where they had, I'm a PC and I'm, I'm a Mac, it's making that differentiate. When you put those, those two things next to next to each other, you are able to say what you stand against, what your brand or your business doesn't believe in. So if your, you know, you can easily differentiate between a UN this camp or you in this camp and, that is a form of indoctrination and it's a perform of being, feeling like you're being part of something that you're pass of something, even though you know, just because you are likely to buy a Mac, you know, you, you're part of that tribe because you've got the Apple symbol on the outside of your laptop, right?

Speaker 3: (07:35)
You've got something to identify yourself. People like to be identified, that they're part of something that's really clever marketing. It's going actually into a whole different conversation really about, how to create a herd I want her to really, really great gray, gray, presentation by Yanik silver about zealots and, how you, you know, you create this, this tribe of people, and you know, good marketers do that when they become customers, they understand that they're not, making a sale, not getting a customer to make a sale, that, they're making a sale to get customer and that's a big difference. That's a big differentiator, but often it's about what you, you know, you stand the games and, and using that to your advantage and the ice. And I've done that very effectively with, within their marketing, and getting people to place themselves in that category of one, you know, moving them into a place where they're only competing with themselves. In fact, it's not buying particular, that model of dice. It's not buying a Dyson. It's which model of Dyson you're going to buy. You know, that's what they're doing and that's very powerful in terms of, that, you know, that branding and the way they'd been able to indoctrinate people in that regard. Yeah.

Speaker 2: (08:57)
Interesting. And so let's, let's take, get to another stage, like, so it talks about the products inside and I can, I can get that, let's say for example, it is an accountant or someone is providing a service where really showing their weakness as an individual might not be what their customers want to hear about potentially and is there a way where they may not be known, they might not have this big brand behind them, they just might just be the local accounts and then wants to kind of like get more customers in their local area. What sort of stories should they be using if they should use a story? Is that, is there something they can, yeah, I think, I think it's really, really important that they, they are, selling, on their own merit as a business, away from being distracted from what they could do to, to, to, to, to pull people in, you know, and to not, to not really selling on their marriage is not a good thing at all. You know? And there's lots of tactics that people can use. And that's the reason why having this core core story is so important. And even if you are an accountant, for example, because, that's unique and people buy into that. I do feel that it still comes back to, what you may sound, you know, what is good practice? What is bad practice? And the moment that you start to become an educator in the marketplace, you, you are going to become, you know, you're going to be, have some more authority, you're certainly going to have some credibility.

Speaker 3: (10:32)
And even if people, you know, even in a competitive marketplace, you much better to be the educator because you're, you're writing the scripts right? You're writing grips and, you know, if you're doing the right things, then people are naturally going to gravitate towards that because you're educating them and, and I would interweave that education with that unique story and you know, where you want people to be is to say this, what you want to think of really is if all things were equal, if all, if all things in accountancy were equal, why would they buy from you? Like really, really kind of dig down into why would they buy from me if everything was equal, why would they buy from you and you've really got to think about, it's not just a benefit statement. You know, you, you've really got it. You know, a practice that we do all the time is that, you know, features and benefits. Listen, really just don't be, you know, make a list of features for sure, but be clear on what those benefits are that somebody's going to get and, you know, it's basic stuff, but not a lot of people really do it. When they come to kind of put this idea of you know, honing their messaging to attract more customers, they just don't do it well enough.

Speaker 2: (11:58)
It's, it's, it's really interesting to have it because I know that, I don't know, I can't remember. I've been racking my brain a little bit as it was in speaking. They're like, but I heard it was an internet radio show, so it was like a local radio. So at the beginning with them, the internet came out and so it went international and they, they're kind of like a strap line before a marketing agency works with them was something along the lines of we play the latest rock, heavy metal and whatever else sort of thing. They're saying what we do and then they changed their marketing message to be like, you'll never ever hear Justin Bieber or Lady Gaga on a radio show and they're, listeners, just mainly went through the roof as a result because it's almost just like spoke to people so much more clearly as opposed to say we're the best at this.

Speaker 2: (12:44)
Just kind of got lost with the wash. we definitely don't do this, differentiated them and did wonders for that radio show. So I suppose as an accountant, one thing that you could potentially do if they saw your message, it's almost like we make accounts seem more simple for the business owner and then you can go about and actually create like demystifying videos or like, here's how to fill in your own tax return. Here's how to work out your tax at the end of the year. He's like, go take all the different types of forms of tax and say, here's other work of help for yourself or here's some quick calculations or here's some things you can do to make your business tick along so much more easily and quickly. Plan for the future, et cetera.

Speaker 3: (13:25)
I think what's interesting is, is that, you know, when we talk about core story, what origin story, whatever it may be, trying to create that unique advantage that you can have you know, I don't want to discount that strategy and I understand why my not be totally applicable to communicate some of that stuff as a business owner, maybe an accountant, solicitor practice, whatever it may be in some, some industries but, it's you, you have to be able to, at least create something or create a person within the business, a character, anything that people can, that can begin to know, like, and trust. It might not necessarily be you, you might not be the best person to create those talking head videos, right? But there may be somebody in the office that's actually, you know, perhaps maybe a little bit more theatrical than you, but you could give that job to, and they don't need to say that they'd love to own, getting in front of the camera.

Speaker 3: (14:30)
You know, and giving some good content way talk in the language of the business I think that's the other thing here that I just want to just want to impress upon the people that are listening to this. The language that you use is so important to, you know, you know, a lot of people don't a lot by this, but it's so, so important. You often people have their own vocabulary and you know, it's certainly in some marketplaces, you know, if you're in the healthcare sector or you know, you're a chiropractor or you're a dentist, you've kind of got your own vocabulary and you need to sometimes, you know, you either need to hone in on that language that you use or change it in some way to talk very directly to potential customers. Right? But I think for me as a brand, you need to have somebody or something, maybe some kind of device, maybe it's a character.

Speaker 3: (15:27)
Sometimes you see that a lot in brand advertising, you know, people are using some kind of character so no, I can trust, to, you know, to, to kind of, get people to buy into in some way, before they make a buy, you know, before they make a buying decision before that or it might just be to the point of getting them to another step so, I saw an estate agents recently, they're growing estate agents. They're a franchise. I wonder if they're listening to this that we funny if they are and they are, that our whole business is around Oh, can I even name the brand? Is that, that that's, that's good cause it would make sense if it's, I don't know who they all say. Yeah, why not? Okay. Well they use, okay, well we'll just kinda keep it hypothetical.

Speaker 3: (16:17)
Right. So, they, they're using sheep as their, kind of, you know, a lot of that, branding and that they kind of like every bit of language that uses to do with the character of that sheet. So, they've made this kind of almost mascot I suppose but that's the, the language that they're using and they're making themselves a category of one, something totally different to what everyone else is doing because of the language that they're using and the way that they're presenting it with this particular sheep. You know, it's, it's interesting, but it's different. And you know, you want to find every way that you possibly can to differentiate yourself, either that with your story, a device or, the language you use. Or as I mentioned before, some very critical core things that people will say, this is what we're about and this is what we're not about. You know, this is black and white to us, you know, and, where do you stand? You know, and if you stand over here, then that's great. And if you stand here, then you know, you're one of those, you, one of the, you know, if you're in marketing speak now, it would be writing copy to say average business owners, but people in the, you know, in the 3% category do this and that's where we are this is what we stand against. This is, you know, so I love what you just said there. I'm going to go with it's black and white to us, which is, which is so nice because I think that it will make the customer no matter where they are in the buying cycle, it makes them feel like they need to learn something about the way you see things. You being as the expert, you being the person they're looking to find out more information from and then that expert says it's very black and white. It makes it feel simple. Like I fall into one or two camps and if I don't, there's something wrong with me, if that makes sense. Cause if it was like you're saying it as it is and you have to fall into one of those categories, it's kind of like an, it's a, it's a decision at that point to say, what's my identity? Am I going to be the sort of person that does do this or doesn't it doesn't do this.

Speaker 3: (18:32)
That goes so much deeper as well to kind of the way that you present your products as well and you know, some people in their businesses will create their own systems or maybe a framework and they'll give those framework or systems or brand. So in one of my businesses, we, we have something called the prison process and then the prison process is just a name for that what we do to ensure quality control. Right? But we've made that, we've put, we've put what we would usually do, you know, what makes our, our, our, our service to be a high value, you know, high quality service and we've put a wrapper around it that people can actually understand a little bit more rather than just saying, we offer, you know, a lifetime warranty or 30 day money back guarantee. And, you know, we guarantee satisfaction guarantee.

Speaker 3: (19:25)
We actually say, you know, we have a proprietary system that we use called the prison process that's unique to us or you an industry you meet that allows us, that allows us to maintain the highest standards, all times. And that means that, and then going to the benefit statement of what it means to them and, you know, again, subtly on the outside when people are looking at that, you know, they can discern and identify, you know, between two different things. These people do this, these people don't do this, but these people are giving me a reason why they do this. They don't just, they're not just kind of doing it. They're telling me why. So using words like proprietary system or framework is fine, but then you've got to give a reason why, you know, you do that. And again, that comes back down to that language and you know, you can into role like this is what we stand for and one of the tools that we use is this. And that's what you need. This is the bridge that you need. You know, whatever it may be, one of the hyperbole you know, you're using to, to create and conjure up in their mind but you know, it's so important to do that.

Speaker 2: (20:41)
Okay. So if someone was to see on other areas where we can build this know, like, and trust as well, within the funnel and the client relationship with a customer relationship. But if someone's thinking, right, okay, well where do I begin to think about my story? And then it'll just be one store and I'll be several stories. It might be kind of like a, is it, is it a case of like looking at the business that you've got or the idea that you've got, I'm thinking, right, what is my core message behind all of this? What do I really stand for, stand against? What do I want to say to the world? What does our business stand for and then off that think about, right, well, what would then be the story that would back that up or the story that would resonate with that, that currently exists, does this and that they can pull out of that you would go with, yeah, sure. So for me, I think it's kind of like starting this like once upon a time. Okay I was, working in this job and, you know, I recognized certainly that, that there was a, a requirement, a need to you know, teach people how to do this or whatever it may be luckily for me, I got the, the skills to be able to help those people. And, as a byproduct of that, I can now do this through my business called X, Y, and Z. Okay. So it's kind of like once upon a time, suddenly this, this came to me, luckily for me, I have this and then, happily ever after, you know, happily ever after, I can now do this. So that's kind of your, your company story of how that began from an individual perspective.

Speaker 3: (22:32)
You need to be able to create, the I your identity, you can say, you know, and for me, we often do this on a maybe like a thank you page after somebody is up to then for some content or, really this is the sort of, this, this origin kind of core story that some people might be familiar with is the indoctrination process you should, should do at every opportunity you can at the beginning of webinars you know, at the beginning of the videos, even sales videos, you know, once you've established that company story you then want to speak, speak about, so, my name Oli, I'm, I started my, my, my own business when I was 15, building computers I, you know, now I've lived in Stafford's in UK for for, for the past 32 years.

Speaker 3: (23:25)
I was born here I was never given, given anything from my parents, but they both worked really hard I had, you know, I was a national tennis player, played against Sandy Murray, and all these little seeds that you kind of put it in that this kind of little things that people grab onto, you know, Oh, you started your business when you were 15. Oh, that's quite interesting Oh, you lived in Stafford. Oh wa my, that you live close to there, right. Oh, that's interesting. I wonder if he knows actual shore like somewhere close. Right. Always paying into Andy Murray. Wow. I missed, you know, so, you know, sometimes when you start to say that core story, you will have people come up to you. Now if you say that at the beginning of the presentation or webinar or whatever, I've had people come up to me that, that, that, that have become crimes and they'll go, Oh yeah.

Speaker 3: (24:15)
Do you remember a lie? You were telling me that when you, when you had that bad, break up with your business partner and you were sitting outside your accountants and you didn't know what to do and you know, the business was just about to be struck off and you did that direct mail campaign. I literally had been in exactly the same place. You know what I mean? And people buy into that week and that's reality. You know, none of that's made up. All of this stuff is real, but nobody can ever take that away from you as a person. So you need to mater and I, I personally feel that your, your personal identity and the way that you create that, needs to be married up. So your, your business story of how that got created, as a result of who you are.

Speaker 3: (25:06)
So I think it's important to do both things because people are gonna buy into it from both, both, both sides but it's so important to, to, to get that, to get that across and to get that crossing every, every opportunity that you possibly can do. If they're also buying from you. And I said this, you know, you might have some, an advocate or somebody in your business that's prepared to do that for you. Let them tell their story and you know, in, in your, if your staff is, they're doing presentations or maybe, maybe even on the about page of your website, let them, let them, let people in on what they like, you know, are they a death metal fan? You know, do they like, you know, what is it that they like and then I think that's important. It's kind of a bit come a bit cliche, you know, on, about us pages and stuff like that.

Speaker 3: (25:55)
But, I think that it's important to just let people in from the outside into what they're getting involved with, so that they can, they can clearly understand what you stand for as a business and how you got to where you are because everybody's got a different story and I think, you know, for me, you need to sprinkle some of that across your marketing, and use those stories, and call upon those stories, to impress upon people certain key facts of this now gives me, you know, this is why I'm qualified to talk about this. Okay. So now quite often people just jump in with a load of benefits of what it's gonna do for you, what it's gonna do for you, what it's gonna do for you. And they don't really set the scene well enough, to, to get people get that buy in early doors of going, this is why I'm talking to you about this and why now is the best time for you to, to consider this and I can talk about this because yeah I think that kind of like, cause when you were going through kind of like the structure of the story almost like the way to present it as such, I was thinking to myself, okay, I've heard people do it like that before and it, and I know the principles in play, but I love the fact that it starts off with something. Like it was almost like here's the gap in the market and here's the problem. And I suppose like from a personal story you can say, here's what I noticed. But as a, as a bigger brand like the Dyson of the world, like the accountant on the high street so to speak, they can almost be like they just highlight the, the gap that is still existing in the marketplace. Like, I think with Dyson they were talking about that the bag and the Hoover so to speak. And it's not like that any longer. And with, and with an account and it could be there, you just get fed up when you speak to an account and it's just full of jargon and you know, I mean there's something in those lines. It just, it fits into that problem that the customer is having right now. And if you can tap into that and then say, here's why we're different, here's what we stand against, that particular problem. And it really makes the story work.

Speaker 3: (27:58)
Yeah. And something we haven't really talked about, and I think I could have probably articulated it better, but I'll certainly, articulate it now in regards to the company story is, you know, most businesses that we speak to in, in our agency, what kind of differentiates us is that we really do get into understanding the priorities of the business over the next 12 months or so, maybe even longer to understand what we actually need to do to make an impact on that business. We align ourselves to delivering marketing assets that actually you're going to get results to get the business from where it is now to where it it's going to get to in the future. Now the thing is, is the, often through the process in terms of when people are looking at your business from the outside in, they wanna like, no, we've just, we've actually just created a document, just kind of support this about what we're about is getting people to understand what your values are as a business.

Speaker 3: (29:03)
And you know, what do you actually believe in, you know, why do you even exist? You know, I know that these are like basic questions, but what's your purpose as a business? How can somebody know if you're going to serve them? Wow. If it's getting, you know, if you're the right people to get involved with, if you don't even know why you, you know, if, if the person that there's trying to sound, he doesn't even know why they exist in the first place and you know, so what's the purpose? Where are you trying to get to as a business? And let other people in on that so that they can fill up their car of some things. What's your mission and then what you know, where, what you stand for, you know, what are those values? You know, some people use, a good way to, if you're not sure of kind of, you know, how, where do you start with having core values as a business?

Speaker 3: (29:55)
You know, have a look at some quotes, have a look at some quotes that kind of resume with you and that will give you some indication for, you know, some of those values that you should believe in and you should align the business. The whole business should be aligned to those values you should hire and fire to those values. It's probably a whole different podcast. The reason why it's important is because when it comes to indoctrination, when it comes to know, like, and trust, you've got to know what you stand for and part of that is your purpose, why you exist and what those values are as well. And not a lot of people instill that in their messages, in their language, in that followup, in their nurture campaigns, in that funnels, to get buy in from people because people want to feel like, you know what you're doing, you know where you're going. And they also want to feel like they're part of something as well.

Speaker 2: (30:50)
Yeah, very much so. I think that I'm really good resource to this is like start with why by Simon Sinek a good book. And also I did the course of his, and it's a really good course, the online course of it and that kind of starts in this inner circle of like start with why then by like what you do and how you do it but no one's interested in really about what you do and how you do it until they know why you do it. And all the big brands kind of are very, very successful. Like the apples of the world, you know, why they exist, you know, they're kind of creating products not just to make money that they're creating products to change the world really. And in the day. And that's, you can kind of buy into that and that's why they've got this huge tribe of people that buy Apple stuff.

Speaker 2: (31:32)
I mean, if I look around the office, we are Applied up to the eyeballs just because that's what will I invest in. And I know that the language of all of that fits together and kind of just ties all together very much to what you've been saying today. So. Awesome so I noticed those, I'm kind of like, I'm sure we're spinning speaking for quite some time, but in terms of getting this know, like, and trust, obviously you're store in your personality and what you've got to say like we've been discussing so far is like is caught or that, is there anything else that you see as like another real big factor to get someone to know, like, and trust you or it's like just start with story, keep it simple, go with that and then build more as it feels congruent to you and the company. Or is it other things you would say? Definitely do this as well.

Speaker 3: (32:16)
Sure. I think just get really, really clear on, your company story, your individual story, your you're, your identity, what makes you unique and what's your brand stance. You know, what you stand for and going through those four things, kind of is a really, really good place to then look at how you sprinkle some of that across your marketing, in, in every aspect of it. But to really think about this as not a series of three emails, you know, this is something that you want to build into every email that you send. Having mind you know, how to create that unit, how to make that message unique and how to tie it back in some way to that story or any of those four principles really and you know, we see this a lot, in terms of, if you're sending people to, where you are sending, sending, you know, nurture based content out.

Speaker 3: (33:27)
A good way to do this, you know, is to create videos. I mean the, the, the power of video is that you've got another modality to be able to actually kind of articulate that message in a way that's from the heart rather than it coming just off the page and what we find is, you know, whenever I've tried to script videos about my backstory, they don't really work, you know, because I know that story. I know why we started our business. I know what makes me unique to a certain extent and people want to hear that from me. So if you think that you've got to kind of go and what's a good idea? What's good practice is to get all of this stuff out, get it all out, right book, is early on as you possibly can be getting in front of the camera.

Speaker 3: (34:24)
And just talk a little bit about, you know, why you're here, how this all started and why, you know, how you can help people this is what we believe in. This is what we do. And you want to repel people as much as you want to bring people towards you. So, you know, don't always be thinking about our guards. You know, that's gonna sound so bad. You know, I remember writing some coffee once saying that I was a 19 year old university drop out. Well that's not going to be attractive to like lots of people, but to some people they're going to go, yeah, fine, you know, this guy that too almost. Yeah. You know, people, people buy from people and more importantly people buy, you know, those stories that are associated with those people and that experience that they've been through that qualifies them to talk about what they're talking about right now in the present moment. So, through the right way of doing that, it's really interesting and I think that using my own business as a case study in the agency, I went through this process and wrote down and I, in fact I actually worked with the media training very briefly to interview me and ask me those questions that I had never even thought about asking myself. Like, cause everybody just getting to the core of like, what, what are you as a business? If I was to write a story about you, what would I pull on? What would be the interesting things about what you do and why you do what you do? And I found out what my why was. And it was a case of like working with clients to bring their best work into the world. And that's what felt really connected with me but the big differentiator for me was like, it's working with our clients. It's not working for our clients and that distinction for me, it was like, that will just be a, make it a lot more fun for me and my clients. I feel like I'm working with them as opposed to they just pay me an idea as work.

Speaker 3: (36:14)
I'm actually, it's such a, it's like so attractive. I mean, when you say that, I know that it's, it's, it's, it's a very subtle kind of changing in language that you just used, but it's such a big, big, big deal. You know, if anybody hearing that, you know, you don't need to be the best copywriter in the world to literally use that kind of language, right? Yeah. Free to be attractive.

Speaker 2: (36:39)
It did take a bit of like conversations and getting it down and thinking, right, here's my full page thing of what we stand for. And then just narrow it down to one sentence. Took a bit of time. But once I got it and I felt comfortable and also defined it for myself and refined it, cause it's like sometimes they're unconscious but you can't verbalize it easily. Sometimes. As soon as I realized what it was, we changed the way that we did the business we changed the process so we didn't do it like everybody else was doing where it's a set fee for the work we do, et cetera. It was like, do you know what if I, if I really stand by that statement, we can get paid on results. We'll work with our clients. That doesn't have to be this up front fee or anything.

Speaker 2: (37:16)
We'll work with them and sure we'll get paid better in the long run. But we're much more invested with our clients and the clients we'll do get a much better service from us as well. And it was really interesting like how everything started changing the result as a result of that reason why we do it and forming our own story for ourselves and just more like bring it to life as opposed to inventing something. It's just like it's always been there, just hadn't been refined. So, that correlates exactly with what you're saying. So I, I've experienced it firsthand and, and it's something that I know I, I've done and I understand the power of it, but when we're doing video ads, typically we won't necessarily go into a huge amount of depth behind that unless the company has got it already but I mentioned like once someone's opted in, they're getting through the funnel and they getting that indoctrination that know, like, and trust, you have to pull that out because in order to make more sales and, and I'm, I'm, I'm forming a deeper relationship with all those customers. There needs to be that story that needs to be, that know, like, and trust in place. So massively valuable.

Speaker 3: (38:11)
No, sure. And you know, for me, the moment that somebody ops in somebody that joins your, you know, your list so to speak, wherever they are, whatever you need to you, you know, you want to take that opportunity right away, to, to, to create that identity and to get those, those, those key goals, key and principles in the mind of the person that's just joined in, the, to, to your world really and, you know, to me this doesn't have to be complicated. You just need to think about this and in your marketing message, and you know, get, get, get those stories in there as much as you possibly can. Do, you know, you know, if you've got more of them, you know, everybody's got a unique story and even, even through failure, I mean, this is the truth is the, you know, there are some things that have happened to a lot of people and out of failure out, you know, those been unbelievable successes. And, you know, people like to hear what you learn, you know, what did you learn from that? And that's what made you are what you are now. Yeah. I don't know, sir Oli, great session. I loved it lots of amazing value in that. And, yeah, look forward to the next. Cool. Cheers Tom. Thanks mate. Cheers, man.

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