You're listening to path to purchase a podcast for passionate and committed business owners and marketers, Oli Billson and Tom Breeze, here to give you the tools and knowledge you need to grow your business and take decisive action. Welcome to the episode.
Speaker 2: (00:14)
Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of path, the purchase. It is Tom breeze here with my good buddy Oli Billson. Hello Tom. Hello Lee. How are you doing? Very well. Thank you. It's been a long time. It has to be a little time, isn't it? I think our listeners are probably very upset with our attitude to getting these out, but we are here constantly trying to make really good content. We're just so busy sometimes running different agencies and, and things are just kind of getting very, very busy for both of us. But that's always a good thing. But you see, we want to make sure we could have just swept it under the carpet a little. I mean, we could have just said like, you know, in our last episode you heard about X, Y, and Zed and just kind of sad to you. You, you must have been, it must have been a technical problem or something not being Kengarv besides what's been going on. But you're right, we have been away. I mean, I've probably made America 52 times in the past. You wait three days. Yeah.
Speaker 2: (01:10)
But then, I like to keep it real with the listeners. Let them know what actually happens when I went off thought that you might actually just try and ghost that one to be honest with you. But, you know, obviously I know you better. You're very honest.
Speaker 2: (01:28)
Of course I am. Yeah. All right. So, today we're going to be speaking about different sources of bringing in new customers really. And I was gonna say, bringing in new traffic and leads and all that sort of stuff, but we're going to actually take this a little bit offline, because, well, Oli, first of all, you wanted to talk about the most important or the most dangerous number, right?
Speaker 3: (01:51)
Yeah, sure. So, I think pretty much, Mmm. This is something that I talk about in virtually every conversation around marketing lead generation especially is the most dangerous number is one in business. Having w relying upon one channel [inaudible] generate leads from, one traffic source it could even be one staff member it can be, not just about marketing, but it could be to do with your team as well of course but, yeah, w we've seen, you know, for those of you who had been advertising on certainly Google AdWords in the early days, I was an early adopter, 2003, I think I was, and everybody kind of began to see the rise in the cost of, of obviously ad-words, over a period of time. And then those new platforms that came out like Facebook and some people jumped platforms and literally just left what they were doing, you know, over here and they went and got attracted to the bright shiny, cheap traffic sources as they were when they first came out. And, you know, the [inaudible] there is a big danger in, in doing that, being, having such a reliance on that, that one channel that you have, to bring people in and it's not just traffic, it's platform is one thing, but then also sometimes funnel can be another so there's, the conversation goes a little deeper than, than what it might look like on the surface.
Speaker 2: (03:43)
This is really interesting actually because I think that when it comes to one, there's also a power in one as well. Select to take the flip and play devil's advocate just for a second. It's almost like whenever I do like a survey out and this goes out, not necessarily more of a questionnaire, I suppose to new prospects that are coming on board in the agency. I always say to them, how's your funnel performing? How well are you advertise or how well is your conversion performing and your funnels and things. And when a client says nine or 10 out of 10, or whatever number they say, we have a, a follow up question, saying great. Well, why does it perform quite so well? What would you put that down to? And a number of people that say to me, just focusing on one funnel and optimizing it and getting it right and making it work brilliantly and testing and, and making tweaks and changes and that sole focus on one thing for the time being is kind of like really getting those results. But I suppose, you're saying do that process and also have other kinds of ways of doing the same thing, right? Do we need tools?
Speaker 3: (04:48)
I, I think the, [inaudible] right to sort of dig into it a little bit because, you know, we see a lot of people with a lot of half-built bridges, you know, they, they learn about something, they listen to a podcast, they read a book, they buy an info product, maybe they attend an event and they decide that they're going to try [inaudible] some kind of paid advertising. Or maybe it's some kind of new funnel, but they haven't really focused and nailed one thing that's working. So what we're trying to say is that you really need to get very clear on a what you want to have happen and build something that, that is working and getting results before moving to something hours so you want to make sure something's working before you go and explore other traffic, options, different platforms that you've got available or building other funnels based on the temperature of those, the traffic in the audience coming towards you.
Speaker 3: (05:50)
Yeah, that's a very sensible thing to do. Somebody that's looking for example on say Google AdWords has a certain level of intent behind that search. They're actually looking for what you have to offer. Maybe it's an exact or you know, more, you know, very, very specific to what you've got to offer. So in one of our, one of our businesses we sell training courses and if you look at the keyword research, people are looking for training courses in this particular niche. But of course the type of funnel that you would use for that is very different to what you would perhaps use on Facebook, where you're interrupting people, your, your trying to capture their attention and based on their demographic, psychographic interest profiles, you are putting a message out in front of them it's very different, but you've got to start somewhere of course.
Speaker 3: (06:42)
And you know, the, the key is to diversify these, these things. Not even just online. Also diversify things offline as well because I know we spoke out about it in past episodes, but for years now, one of our best, sorry, one of our most expensive, one of our most expensive sources of leads is offline to online lead generation, but it is the cheapest customers for us. So just because it is the most expensive lead doesn't necessarily mean it's the most expensive customer, we got a very good quality of customer, from that form of lead generation. And of course it diversifies things. We don't just put all our chips over in, offline to online because of that. Of course we do as much of it as we can to scale it but we want to diversify it because you know, if suddenly the cost of postage goes up dramatically or they stop allowing us to send what we are sending in the post to get people's attention, which you can take those things out of your control. Everybody's heard of the Google slap, you might get the postage slap, who knows the mailing slap, who knows? So a mail slap, that sounds like a different thing altogether. But yeah, when I'm older I may tell them about that.
Speaker 3: (08:05)
So yeah, divers diversifying what you're doing is a, is a, is a, is a big thing then you know, [inaudible] there's one thing to build something can focus on getting it right and getting it right for a particular platform, traffic platform. And that's where I would start really, if you were listening to this, you're like, well, why do I start with all this? You know, if I'm starting completely fresh, you'll re-inventing something, we'll start a new service. I'll be like, pick a platform [inaudible] a focus on that platform and get an offer. The converts, create a funnel that works with that platform with that temperature of traffic, that audience of traffic coming towards it and get that nailed. Once you've got that nailed, you can then begin to, you know, really laid the foundations for much more of a diversified, strategy.
Speaker 2: (08:57)
It's so funny. It's like, it's, it's squeezing more and more juice at the same lemon, right? So it's like, that's all I always look at from a YouTube and AdWords is like, there's this phases of which can, like we look at when we were kind of advertising in terms of like there's a starting point where we think, well, we didn't, we don't know how well it's going to perform. We've got to take it to the marketplace and test our load of things. Like, is the video ad good enough? Is the targeting good enough, et cetera, et cetera, and as the offer. Good and then once we've kind of started that first wave activity, we start to see like, okay, the targeting was a little bit off, but we can tweak that. The video ad probably needs to be changed because it's not converting as well as it could have done.
Speaker 2: (09:33)
And the offer is still okay, we'll kind of carry on with that for the time being. And then we're going to go into phase two and go a little bit deeper into different types of campaigns we can build out. And we normally get into like the seventh phase before we really feel like, okay, there's not much more we can do here. We've got to the point of like, if we change anything now, it's gonna make such a small difference that it's not really worth joining all that effort any longer. We're better off being bringing a new product with the same client into the marketplace or something along those lines, or going for a slightly different angle or whatever it might be but yeah, I'm very, very kind of keen on going deeper and deeper to the point of which it doesn't make sense to go any deeper any longer and get that kind of like getting the funnel honed in, get the advertising campaigns honed ends that absolutely working brilliantly well and they'd be like, cool, we've, we've nailed that. Now let's move on to the next thing that next thing is really important of course, cause you don't want to be relying on one thing. Cause as you say, as the prices increase or something changes that's outside of your control, then of course you're back in say a situation. You've got nothing at that point so yeah, it's the difference I guess probably this isn't the first time I've said this, but it's the difference between being like a sniper rifle and a shotgun. You know, it's like spray and pray or be extremely laser targeted and focused, in doing, you know, adopting that kind of approach. And it definitely pays to do that for sure. But I know, I know one thing that we were talking about actually just before you got onto this episode was like, we were looking at, obviously both of us, over in the United States, quite a lot talking to different conferences. [inaudible] you know, sometimes when you're speaking it might sense to, exhibit it makes sense for you to put yourself out there, get a, get a STEM, get a booth and and, and use that because you've already gotten a presence obviously from stage. It actually gives you kind of a bit of a double, more than a double benefit, maybe a triple threat then, cause you of course you can lead generate from the stage. You know, I do that quite a lot with text messages often it's to deliver a copy of the slides or whether it's to offer a particular bonus that they may be interested in or worksheet workbook or free tool or something like that from stage works really well to lead generate. So with that in itself is a medium. So let's talk about that. You know, whenever we're doing Facebook, whatever, then we Google whatever we're doing anywhere else.
Speaker 3: (12:02)
You know, we're all, so here we're also talking here about using, speaking as a way to lead generate. That's part of my diversification strategy. So speaking and then we've got the booth. [inaudible] you know, is I in itself a different kind of media. It's offline, where you're capturing people's information, no different to online law. You're providing some form of value and they're giving you their information. I'm exactly the same is from stage, right and so you could give something away to them, at the booth in exchange for their contact information and all of the, the thing Gates, he's like, all the metrics still ring true. Like it doesn't matter if you're doing offline, online, what you're really looking at is it costs me $20,000 to exhibit it. This event from the booth, I got Sy, I don't know, 500 or a thousand, leads people that gave you their information.
Speaker 3: (13:05)
And you may, if you're looking, depending upon what your strategy is, have some people actually bought from you, maybe you sold a product there. And so you can kind of go through the same process. What was the cost per lead? You can look at what the return on investment is just in the same way as you would look and at anything else. Also the lead to buy Italian, you know, these leads can be extremely good quality sometimes and surprisingly because they've had some face time with you, can really reduce that lead to buy time down that I had a conversation with you on the booth, they're very well qualified you've had a meaningful conversation and they're ready to proceed with something with you quite quickly. Now that might not be many of those people, but they are why for the whole thing, may work extremely well for you.
Speaker 2: (13:51)
Yeah, that's, that's the thing, right? So, like for listeners who are listening in, I love when I say that cause I thought like there's no need to say who are listening in because if they're already slightly, just slightly yes, yes, very true so, so for those people that are listening and continue to listen to this podcast right now, listening to this book, the, just to give people a bit of context, like, so we're going to both be at an event in February in San Diego and I'm, I'm going an RN right now about whether I should go for a boost or not and how, I haven't got all the details just yet. It's probably going to be only be going for it, but I have literally no knowledge of how to run a booth and most effective, wait, I know what booths are.
Speaker 2: (14:35)
I've seen it run very well in the past. And in fact, the reason why we were talking about it before this episode is because, I went to an event in San Antonio with you earlier this year, right and well when I got there I just noticed like everyone had lots of booths around. It was great. But like all these just shown out, it was like this amazing booth and it just looks incredible. And I had loads of stuff there that just if you walk past the booth you always want to grab stuff and just leave your details just because it looks so beautiful. But everything else there is awesome as well. So, as the GoTo conversation I was like, well I'll talk to Oli cause he obviously knows how to do this stuff plus your a Brit in and doing it.
Speaker 2: (15:13)
I'm doing a booth in the U S so there's that sort of thing that, how do we ship it all out there and have all the logistics of that and I've had lots of chats with people like James Schramko about it. I've had a chat for the Russ from digital marketer as well, like what tends to work best and so I've got some really good pointers from them as well James Schramko in particular was really interesting cause he was like, make sure you have like a script that you'll use when you're at the booth itself. Like make sure you don't ask the thing of like, are you being helped? For example whether people can say, yeah, no, no, I'm just, I'm just watching, I'm just looking all just kind of like it doesn't give them that option. So you're kind of like asking better questions to make them engage.
Speaker 2: (15:48)
Like, Oh you running YouTube ads right now cause it either way if they say yes or no and it's an easy yeah, yeah, exactly. You can continue that conversation without having to feel like someone just said, you notice I'm just looking, which is difficult then to recover that conversation. So I thought all that sort of stuff is, it's, it's, for me it's like there's 101 different things to remember or to think about when running a booth. But little things like that are just like great little reminders that Oh my God, yeah, of course. I probably wouldn't have remembered to do that. So that's great that they make sure everyone who's working in their booth knows the script and has a script to run by and so they're just like, everyone goes through a similar thing but in terms of some of the stuff we were talking about as well, I think we're in a fortunate position because we're both be speaking and, the event, from my side I'll be speaking and then I'll have the booth as well, so I can call people to action almost to come and speak to me on the booth.
Speaker 2: (16:36)
And from Ross's perspective, when I spoke to him, Russ had to be, he was very much like, when it comes to Boosie, a lot of people spend a lot of time speaking to one person and there's like a queue of 20 people and then you'll lose the last 10 people that were queuing up to speak to you because you're taking so long. So he's like, make it quick. Just continue that conversation offline or online or whatever it might be from there. But I mean, what have you seen work, and I'm putting you on the spot here, but what have you seen, like is there three top tips that you might have, or three things that you say definitely do this or that to make sure that if you want to do a booth, you get the very best results out of it.
Speaker 2: (17:10)
Yeah. So I think there's probably a few different types of, of, of people that you, you will see and they will vary in different interest levels as well. You'll have like the lurkers, those are the people that, will walk past, you know, the stand. They look from afar, they'll be looking at you, they'll be looking at you at the backdrop of your stand and they're a bit tentative if they should engage in a conversation or come toward GA. and that's just the, how some people are, you know, that's, that's conference yet. Yeah. Somebody's going to say it, but I don't want to start a conversation, please. Yeah, exactly. Yeah so I know what happened. If I start talking to them, I'm not buying it. So that's the bathroom. Yeah. I'm going to bear that in mind to be honest with you. Shit. Yeah, that's fine. A report.
Speaker 3: (18:06)
So I think you've got the people that like are on the periphery, you know, that they're not yet engaged in, in, in, in what you've got to offer yet. They're just kind of yeah, on the outside. And, and really with those guys, the thing that they probably want to see, the thing that's actually going to draw them in is some kind of offer something that's going to get them, entice them to well start a conversation, you know, have a chat to find out. Yeah. So that can be varying different things. So it could be a lead magnet. So one of the things that we give away is a free guide, like a checklist, the 61 point checklist, a marketing checklist. We also, just recently have started doing QR competition stuff. Now I'll, I'll coach you all now. I'll come, I'll come back to that cause that's more like the second profile, a person.
Speaker 3: (18:59)
So the, the, the third is like somebody that's like looking around, they, you know, are, are looking at you and think, yeah, you know what, actually I'm going to go and claim that cause that's pretty cool. Now what you don't want, you don't want lie loads of swag and stuff like that that they can easily just come and take and run away because you might think to yourself, well that's good. Guess what happened today? We had a hundred tee shirts and now we don't have any. Yeah, but you also have nobody's names now. Yeah. As, as a, as hard nosed as I am I don't really like the idea of giving stuff to people, which is some form of value when I don't have anything back from them. Okay. I don't know about them. I don't have their details. I just, I just think that's a really big mistake. I think otherwise it's a branding exercise and we live in a direct response world, so you won't see me giving away free pens, you know, don't be disappointed. That'd be disappointing. I'll pen scratch. Oli Billson. And so one of my parents, ah, high quality pans are also for high quality potential customers.
Speaker 2: (20:13)
So how are we in one of those days? No, no, exactly. Well, if, and if I continue talking to you, you never know, you might buy something. So I might just, I might just bypass the pen or just go straight to the high ticket item, but that'd be a lot better for me as well. Okay, cool. Yeah. So yeah.
Speaker 3: (20:29)
So I think that those types, the second is somebody that's like, you know, they want like, they do want to engage with you and, and it really comes down to how you handle that. Now that type of person is somebody that probably is a, you know, want to find out more information and you need to kind of discern those people from the first, the last type of person I'm going to talk about in the name and the mailing. So that's really about data capture. And that's going to be ready about the free guide giveaway, get their information and easy way to get their information, that they can either K in themselves or you can have somebody take down their information and we're using QR codes, so on banners we've got these QR codes where somebody could come up and scan it and then enter a competition.
Speaker 3: (21:18)
So they actually scam it and it takes them to a landing page to enter in their information for [inaudible]. So with a QR, with a QR code, do you not have to have a QR app on your phone? Yes. Download the app first. We actually give them both options. So just like anything, any form of marketing, you should give them multiple ways to respond. So, in our [inaudible] we say, here's the QR code, scan it in. Now some people do have that barcode scanner, so that's cool some people will just want to type it in like an easy to like go to URL to type in, to end the competition. Well, they just want to give you that business card and put it in the bowl, you know, so cool. Okay. So you've got to be able to give them a couple of different options, to do so.
Speaker 3: (22:07)
So really the second type of person is somebody that, you know, eh, you can capture their information from now, they, the last side, a somebody that's wanting your attention. Now they can be fall into two categories. The person that's going to be talking to you for a real long time and an in depth conversation that involves a more, you're not going to serve them very well by having that conversation on the booth. Okay. So last thing to do with those people who say, Hey, you know what, I think this warrants like a bit more of an in depth conversation. Why don't we, share a little bit of time together. I know that the event's busy and you know, I don't want you to miss out on anything, but I do want to continue the conversation. Let's set aside some time and let's have that conversation.
Speaker 3: (22:55)
And it can either be like later in the day, it could be early morning before they get there. Just so you've got that quality time with somebody that really warrants that in depth conversation. Once they're qualified of course to do that, you know, you shouldn't, would you sell that time or would you just say, Hey, just like booking a time for free? Or how, how would you gauge that? Yeah, I think it really depends on your mechanism for your sales process if what you're selling warrants them to go through an audit of some description, that might also be something that you can't actually achieve. Oh, the show either because you guys are always thinking. So for me, for me I think it really depends on what you're selling and what your sales processes I think that your, that or somebody on your team is that to be able to educate, to, overcome objections and challenges and re-affirm and get them to know, like, and trust you.
Speaker 3: (23:55)
You're not really using the booth as a way to ship stuff to them. You know? And I think that in a lot of ways you might have, people don't have a clear objective when they go to these things. Is it for me to generate leads or is it for me to sell some products that can be a middle ground where there's a bit of a hybrid of the two. But in the main, it's kind of like, no, we're here because everybody that comes to the booth, we're going to say, Hey, we've got this special author but it's only onto the end of the event and this is this product or you can buy it. Do you want to talk about it? Great. And it's this much, do you want to buy it? Yes or no? No, I don't. Okay, give me your details and they'll follow, you know, that type of stuff. That's like, I'm kind of a hybrid, but I, I feel that, yeah, when you're unified together, cause it's likely not to just be you on the stand yourself around what it is that you want to have happen, around one common goal, then that's, you know, certainly a consideration.
Speaker 2: (24:53)
Interesting. So the idea that I've got for the booth at this stage is that we are building a tool at the moment whereby you just add in a few keywords into the tool and then it gives you all the best ways of targeting your audience. Basically just right. It says, okay, here's some, like here's what all the videos are that would come up for that type of search and here's the view counts and therefore is it a viable audience there? Here's your main competitors in the market space on YouTube. And so it kind of like, it gives you that. And then I was thinking like it's a nice way of starting off the conversations, easy thing that someone's just to type it into the iPad for example, press go and they kind of come up with all the results and then we can say, Hey look, you want us to email that out to you so you've got that information there for you.
Speaker 2: (25:33)
And that's kind of what I thought there good way of saying is your audience on YouTube, can you, can you get in front of them and then start that conversation off and then also capture their details cause we can say, great, well let's just kind of add this to your account right now. So you've got it when you log in or something. That's kind of one thing we're thinking obviously for the people that other people that wanted to have a chat with me, what I'm going to need, still took, need to work out how to solve that problem that maybe we just do like a, Hey look, why don't you pay for an hours consultancy with me and I can just go through whatever it is you've got in mind and just cause you're here at the event, we'll do it for half price or something like that.
Speaker 2: (26:08)
Can incentivize them in some way just to be like, okay, cool. We can continue that conversation. It's a big deal. That sort of conversation. I need so much more background information before I can actually give good advice I could probably give like high level advice at the actual booth, but then if I see that ad and can review it quickly, it's like a cool, this is what I do differently or whatever, but you're not going to have to do that at the boost itself without spending 40 minutes with somebody so I was thinking like we could probably like have a chat and say, Hey look, you probably qualify at a stage for a one-to-one chat with me. Just like reserve that by going on online here using this code or something and then buying them. We just let the news book and your time with me whenever you like that might be a good way of kind of like just siphoning off those people quickly without losing them as a prospect perhaps.
Speaker 3: (26:52)
I think what would be really cool would be, you know, and I've seen this done, it works extremely well. The first question I would have is how many people, what's the footfall on the stand? Because if they are required to engage in something, do you have enough iPads? Do you have enough stations? How big is the stand? And so if there's a lot of people and that's the main lead magnet quote unquote, then is there enough of them in order to provide an experience to them that's positive. So that's the first thing that I would come to. The next thing I would come to [inaudible] is cam that lead magnet actually being an attraction for other people that might have been more the lurker variation. Now [inaudible] we'll look at a profile. What I mean by that is this, I've seen this work really well where you can go to an iPad and you can actually put headphones on and you can watch a video or go through a walkthrough or tutorial, and actually use that similar tool that you've seen that somebody's going through. They, they can put that, put the headphones on, they can then say, you know, they can be immersed in the experience of the tool. And then you can have multiple people doing that at the same time. They can watch a video of you giving a demonstration, doing a screen flow tutorial of what it is, and then telling them what to do step by step on the tool. And that can be really nice. If it's not, give me an attraction, then some people to come in and learn more about it. Mmm.
Speaker 2: (28:29)
I quite like that cause it's like it's a safe place with the headphones on, especially. It's like you're not being sold to by a person. It's like you stick on the headphones and you can answer certain questions on the, on the iPad to get some really bespoke content for yourself that could be kind of a really nice way of like, just bringing people in those lurkers, put them onto that but likewise, if someone's asking too many questions even in the queue and you think, well, these aren't necessarily the best prospects in the world, just say, Hey, go, Hey, look, what I read recommend right now is going watch that you're actually in love it and we'll give you good direction there. That's pretty cool.
Speaker 3: (29:00)
I think probably the other thing is, is that, it depends upon your staffing, as well, because I've seen something while there's multiple television stands around and people are actually like scheduling, almost like not scheduling, but they are actually coming in for like a demo of something. And then you've got, because you've got the staffing, you've got the ability to not need an automated iPad playing stuff back to them. You've actually got somebody kind of almost consulting with them on it, but using the demo as a guide and then then they lot, yeah. Oh, you know, actually honestly I might sign up for it depends on what it is that you're trying to sell, what the step is that you're trying to take them to but yeah, and the thing with the iPad thing that's interesting is that you probably don't need that many people there to actually achieve a good result with it.
Speaker 2: (29:52)
Let the iPad speed the be the people, right? Yeah, exactly and some people don't like to be too bothered, you know, you can just have somebody there or a couple of people bad that just say, Hey, so you find that interest in. Did you enjoy the concept? Yeah. Great. Cool. [inaudible] that was great. And we're like, cool, well do you want me to send you your results? Yeah. Cool. How do we do that? Cool. Let's give you your details. And you know that the iPad could actually serve as the lead capture mechanism in order for them to actually get to the next stage. So they just simply fill out a web form. They then go to a video page, it tells them and walks them through what's going on and then they actually submit that, you know, go gags. That's the tool and that can be a really cool way of doing it. But I think the thing is there's so many, nobody should really have to be rolling out, different ways that they could be lead generating. Both, you know, offline from light. You know, we just went about booze. We were talking about the stage even from podcasts or, or any other type of media that they're using, they should always be looking for mechanisms to, to capture as much, as many leads as they possibly can.
Speaker 2: (31:00)
That's pretty cool. That's pretty cool Oli, great session as always. And I think that the key learnings here are kind of by making sure people like focus in and get like one funnel or one sales process or one, traffic generation source kind of nailed in and zeroed and imperfect and then very quickly, soon after, as soon as the point, that point of where, you feel like you can't squeeze much more juice out of that lemon, diversify as quickly as possible and go off through either with a new product or a new audience or whatever it might be. And then finally as well, like where do you think about not just online but offline and the experience you have other people and what assets you have available to see how else you could bring in different sources of traffic and combine that with what you've already got. So that's been awesome. InBev, very useful. And I know they're going to take a lot of the content from this episode to San Diego when it comes to TNC and doing a presentation there with a booth there. So it'd be very, very cool.
Speaker 3: (31:50)
Love it, Tom. It's been awesome, looking forward to seeing you again that, that beautiful face and that green jumper in the next episode. Yes. All right. See the next episode.