Speaker 1: (00:00)
You're listening to path to purchase a podcast for passionate and committed business owners and marketers, Oli Billson and Tom Breeze are here to give you the tools and knowledge you need to grow your business and take decisive action. Welcome to the episode.

Speaker 2: (00:14)
Hello and welcome everybody to another episode of path to purchase my name is Oli Billson and I am with my good friend Mr Tom Breeze, unbelievable introduction as usual very good. Very right. Good so eating my lunch as well. So I probably if you're watching on video to go couscous, although my cuckoo or whatever you call it.

Speaker 2: (00:40)
Yeah, that's if you can, if you can speak and read English. Okay. You should be able to know that I used to curse. Curse, cause, guess, yeah. Nice pronunciation. Thank you. Thank you. So, Tom, we're both running agencies majority of our clients are in the US and Canada. Would that be fair?

Speaker 3: (01:02)
I think the monitor in the US I'm sorry, I don't think I've got, I think I've got one client in Canada, I think.

Speaker 2: (01:09)
Okay. I have, I think I have two in Canada and most are in the U S and a few in the UK, but mainly in the U S and Canada. The Canadians. Yeah, I do too. There's sort of the subtle things, with the Canadian accent, give them giveaways, you know, and sometimes what I like to do when I'm in America, and especially at a conference where there might be some Canadians milling ground and they automatically assume that I think that they may be American. I'd be like, Hey, so, what part of Canada are you from? And they go, Oh, hold on a second. Yeah, you're right. Yeah. How did you know Alabama? I know what you're talking about from San Diego yeah, no, it's crashed and burned a few times, but I mean, you try enough times, it's going to work out at some point.

Speaker 2: (01:57)
Why is it 80, 20? Right? Yeah. So, so, let's get back. Let's get back on track. So, what I was hoping we could talk about, is really kind of, if you are a business owner, at what point do you end up having a conversation with somebody like you or me? I'm looking for somebody to, you know, think about running your advertising and maybe taking on a marketing agency to do stuff for you I dunno about you, but probably the majority of people that, you know, we inevitably end up speaking to are either people that have been, fit in kind of one of three camps maybe for those of you who are listening, maybe you can identify with one of these three and then I'll be interested to find out from you, Tom. But I mean for me, one is a person that is probably listening to the right kind of a podcast, maybe like ours, who knows.

Speaker 2: (02:59)
They're probably attending the right events they're reading the right books they are, maybe buying a few infoproducts here and there from different people. And ultimately they're trying to take that information that they're gathering from these different sources, and implement it into their business. They're trying to execute on these different ideas, organize their thoughts and, and get this stuff implemented and they run into a problem because of course, you know, trying to do everything yourself is a challenge. And, they're also trying to run their business as well as well as be the marketer of their business. And that can create some issues and they might get some early successes, but ultimately, you know, it revive revolves around a spectrum of skills, which they probably don't have, but they're trying to learn about. And then the second is somebody that says, well, actually I need to like outsource some of this stuff.

Speaker 2: (03:52)
Maybe I need to outsource my copywriting. Maybe I need some me to do a deal with a WordPress page, a WordPress site. Maybe it's ClickFunnels, lead pages, and infusion soft. Now I need, you know, somebody to deal with my marketing automation. Maybe I need a video producer. Maybe I need somebody to set some Facebook out, maybe I need some graphic designed them. All the stuff that comes with, you know, creating a, a digital marketing, some, some level of digital marketing fulfillment in some way, shape or form. So they naturally go out onto the internet, onto the interwebs and find, Upwork or oDesk or I think those two things have merged and they go and try and find talent. They try and hire other people, but then they run, run into the problem of like being the project manager of those people.

Speaker 2: (04:42)
So they get a bit tired of that because now they're trying to get these people to understand what they've learned through buying these courses and attending these events, which of course they don't. They're just in their own silos, in their own specialisms. And that's quite frustrating. And, ultimately the business owner, the employee becomes a well actually becomes an employee because they become a project manager, which is a problem. So then they think the third option for them is that they will go and hire somebody in the house. They take the big leap of faith to say, I believe that I need to spend money on advertising. I believe that I should have a marketing strategy and I can be focused on marketing. It should be focused on marketing, so I'm going to hire somebody who knows what they're doing. And so they hire an expensive marketing manager, marketing coordinator, whatever, who's probably good at one thing.

Speaker 2: (05:30)
They might be good at copywriting, they might be good at strategy, whatever it is they are good at, they're only good at one thing. More likely than not, they've probably got a unique ability with their experience and so that's what they can offer them. And so the business owners spend a lot of money on bringing somebody into the business, hopefully finding of course the right person. And then that person has to then inevitably outsource some of these things that need to get done, like setting, advertising up, creative copy, marketing automation, all the other things that need to happen. And then they become the project manager of all of these people, which they didn't want to do in the first place, nor do they understand all of these different things because they, one person. And so the whole story begins to coming round to speaking to somebody like us, to essentially acts as a marketing department and a, not just project managing, but actually executing on ideas, that we understand, studying the same things and having experienced with everything that we do. So anyway, that's the pitch. Tom, when do you want to sign up?

Speaker 3: (06:40)
So, so I think that you and I have very different prospects coming through from, from your explanation, compared to what I experienced. But that's because we're both different agencies at different points, right? So, I think, I think your original question, if I'm correct me if I'm wrong, was, was it, when do you think about hiring an agency? Is that the question?

Speaker 2: (07:00)
Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Okay, cool. So way back then, about 10 minutes ago before I started, before you hang up your out your laundry and then you had this, okay, sorry. Yes or no swearing okay. So, I think that from, from when you should hire an agency, it depends on what sort of agency you're thinking of hiring and I some agencies can be a one size fits all type scenario with those types of agencies, washy will handle it. The question of what type of agency to have to get later. But I think as soon as you realize that you've got money in the bank to be able to fold an agency without having to necessarily worry too much about the cost, because you can immediately see where the ROI would be I knew it frees up your time. That's very valuable. That point I think is it's on when you start thinking about essentially hiring an agency.

Speaker 3: (08:02)
Like I, I don't know, I should speak out on it. I don't actually know how much you charge, but I know like, whatever it would be, I could see like for me, if I had a better website in place and a better funnel in place, we could close probably twice as much business much, much quicker. And I know your fees would be less than that price, so to speak. But also I'm paying for it to be off my hands slightly as well. Like, Oh, it's just not a problem for me anymore. It's off. So that I think you're paying for two things. One, the implementation and getting it all done properly and a lot of experience and someone to handle it, but also too, you're paying for your time to come back. So people don't realize that sometimes they just think, Oh, I'm getting one person to do an assessment.

Speaker 3: (08:44)
This much money. But you're also getting your time back. That's another thing that people don't realize sometimes. So, I think that as soon as you are in a position where you need time, you've got money, and you can see an ROI pretty quickly from hiring that particular agency. That's what I think is it's on to hire an agency, that, that's the U S so I'm more thinking like step-by-step what sort of agency to hire as you go. And I think that for me, if you were to come and look at a lead generation, customer, generation agency that myself just as the advertising, then I would say that as soon as you go to a solid funnel that can scale. That's the point at which you start approaching companies. That can do, because the thing is with agencies like myself or any other agency that does a good job, we'll be able to do it much better than you will as a, as a listener.

Speaker 3: (09:38)
So thing cause we just do in day in day out lists all we do. You don't like I don't, I don't have the first knowledge about email marketing. I've sent one email in the last year. I believe it is. It might not even be one in his own. When that last email went out, we don't do any email marketing whatsoever and yes, I could probably say, well let's go and get an email marketing agency or Ali or maybe you could handle that very well and that's probably something we can do. Not a priority for me right now cause we just got bigger fish to fry when it comes to like processing through prospects and things. And we don't need the extra business right now either but the, so I think it just comes down to in terms of when should you hire is, is the point where you, you basically need the help and you can afford it and you can see the ROI quickly.

Speaker 3: (10:22)
And sometimes it's, it's an opportunistic thing. So like with YouTube, you don't need to go to YouTube reporting a lot of results from Facebook if you wanted to, but YouTube sat kind of like where you can diversify. So if you're listening to anything you should not get into YouTube ads, one, whether it worked for you as is one thing. The second thing is that, the great thing is you don't have to be hiring video teams. You don't need to be, like we know we can just take that out of the client's hands cause we notice it's a struggle for them. So to put it all together sort of thing. So, what I'm doing this really is to say, if you have a strong funnel and you can see that, right, let's get this agency to plug in just to send traffic through this funnel that I've already got.

Speaker 3: (11:08)
And I know I can see a profit from that very quickly or about to work out whether there's a profit there and I'm willing to take the risk and there not be a profit there, then that's a great time to hire an agency like myself because I sure I do it on cost per acquisition. So there's very little risk but other agencies, astronaut from fee or percentage of ad spend as the method of promotion, which is completely fine as well and there is a bit more risk that you need to put up front. So like when you pay that first bill, it may be like eight weeks before they start getting proper results for you. And can you justify two payments, two monthly payments of that company and know that would be risk cause it might not work and it might not be that full either.

Speaker 3: (11:48)
You know, they might be trotting out, save, it's going to work well not your website, not mine. It'll be good enough. It might be really good to convert JV traffic but not very good for advertising, but they should be able to give you a lot of feedback about that before doing business with them. That's what we do, like a map session, like an audit and strategy session beforehand. So I can say the web social is no good enough right now. It's great for JV traffic shore, but it's not gonna be good enough for cold traffic coming through so I think that that probably would be my advice to the, when to hire different types of agencies. It's when you kind of need help, but you have to make sure you can afford it as well.

Speaker 2: (12:21)
Yeah, I mean we sort of find that, the, that that probably is a while, but in terms of the profile of the people that we certainly work with, [inaudible] just kind of probably for the record and the people that are listening, both me and you, not that we just have, different, different agencies in the sense. One is an advertising agency, one is a marketing agency. There are two different things for those people that don't know that we also, in the way that we actually go about doing our business is also quite different in the agency world you would mentioning that CPA and you know, revenue share around equity and other things that you might do with us, we don't do any project work, which is kind of unheard of and most agencies, certainly full service agencies, and we don't bill by the hour.

Speaker 2: (13:26)
We don't do any hourly work. So, again, from an agency standpoint, it completely throws out the norm when it comes to how do we build the client. Because of course, if we don't do project work and we don't build by the hour, how the hell do you work? You know, and, we obviously have a very specific, deliverable and delivery, that we do do, called the partner marketing, service. And, I think that the temptation for many when they are looking at these things and they're looking at the costs, and we're investments more like a to do this is exactly what you said, which is that time, that they, that they may be spending trying to hire the people and actually not doing a very good job of hiring good people. They also alignment of all those people.

Speaker 2: (14:19)
You know, we speak to some people that I've got outsource teams and stuff, but none of them are really aligned with the purpose, the mission of the business. And if they're not really aligned with where you're trying to go, then that makes things a hell of a lot more difficult to get the best out of them. And so, you know, for us, whenever a praising and agency, it's not necessarily just about can they do the job, but it's if they understand what's going to be meaningful you as the business owner and that they can be sharply focused on getting those results for you. So often when we speak with a potential client or a new client joins us, we're actually not talking about the funnel that they conjure up in their mind that they want to have a belt or improving an existing funnel that's under performing or even working.

Speaker 2: (15:17)
Often it's like, let's bring this all back to why are you doing what you're doing and what are the priorities that constitute some level success for the business? So what does success look like for you? Where are you actually trying to go with this over the next 12 months? What are the priorities? Because that gen drives everything else that's happening. And if you don't have an agency that's going to ask you those sorts of, obviously higher level questions, but very important questions because they drive the activity that the agency should be doing for you. And should be guiding you. And if you want an agency, like many are, but is essentially a fulfillment agency, meaning they're not really consulting on what you do or what you need to see to have done they also are not necessarily strategically aligned and they don't understand where you're trying to get to. They are just simply, I need some Facebook advertisements, et cetera. Okay, we'll game set that up for you or I just need a lemon, just go and do that. Well, that's just a fulfillment agency there's a very different thing. And so although we're all in the agency world, not all agencies are created equal, that's for sure.

Speaker 3: (16:39)
Sure. It's really interesting you say that because, I just had a prospect very well, very well known UK company, in, or you, you would know them and I think a lot of people, listeners would know them as well. And they came through and they wanted to have a call, which we had and went well and then, the marketing manager hat was on the line as well. And they basically said, okay, so here's what we need. And told me what they thought their company needed. And, when they were saying it like, we want this has happened, we on this, did this, this, this, this, and this. Almost treating us like a fulfillment agency, which is, which is fine because that's what they needed and that's what they were looking for. And I immediately, I was like, okay, cool, well you need to answer these questions as well, which I need to ask you as well.

Speaker 3: (17:30)
And they thought the questions I asked were irrelevant because it didn't, correlate directly with the tasks they wanted me to fill. And so it's very, it's very interesting when that sort of thing happens because I'm like, well, that's not going to work. And they're like, well, we're kind of not paying you for that. Whether you think it's gonna work or not, we're going to pay you because we want this job done. I was like, great, we'll, I'm not that agency for you then but that would have been plenty of agencies that would have taken the money and said, cool, I can build that no problem. And that would have been the rubric done. But that is exactly that isn't it? It's like it's knowing what you, what the client reports is they're gonna think is successful versus what actually is going to be successful because the number of times, not, not so much nowadays, but like in the past, I'd be like, Hey, great news.

Speaker 3: (18:19)
We're getting leads in for this price. That's exactly what you wanted. And then they'd be like, yep, that's great, but we're not really achieving go be those, like what was considered a secondary goal for them when we first the conversation, it's like, we're not getting huge amounts of exposure. I'm on YouTube. I was like, sure. That's not a goal though. The goal was to get your leads, right? The goal is to make money. Right. And then, then, and then, yeah, yeah, we don't do that. But we also wanna have a big boy. We want to be famous on YouTube. Sure. That, that was something you did mention, but it's not not the priority here. And lo and behold, like nowadays, I'd kind of like, we'll ask those questions as you're talking about that. They're like, all right, what does success look like in 12 months time?

Speaker 3: (19:01)
Would you want to have, set aside the fact that we're gonna achieve the result of like the financials, what else is really important to you? And then you start to dig down into kind of an ego driven stuff sometimes, but that's completely cool. That's kind of what they want and it's like, okay, we also want to achieve this, this, and this. And you're like, great. Now when I were heading all, cause I'll get the financial thing sorted. But I know that like that's gonna gear up towards another, probably a bigger goal. They might consider it a secondary goal, but really deep down it's their first goal. They want to be famous, they want to achieve this, that, and the other. They want to, they want the business to go in this direction. They want the profit margins to be slightly higher or whatever, whatever it is they want to achieve is normally a secondary, which can actually be a primary goal for them.

Speaker 3: (19:41)
But it's not PO poses that cause I didn't think it would be possible until they get there and that's something that we pay attention to a lot more. It's like, I know a lot of clients when they start seeing results, they're like, yeah, that's great. That's great. That's great and it's the Bartlett that you realize that there's another thing here that I didn't maybe didn't pick up on before so it's, it's just, it's interesting like I think a lot of companies looking to hire agencies out there. I think it's the, the important things to do is to say, yes, what's my immediate thing? I want to base it like initial success on. But once that company achieves that, that, as a, as a person looking for an agency, if you're in that position right now, try and be as clear as possible with the agency where you want to go, what you want to achieve.

Speaker 3: (20:25)
Because otherwise, what ends up happening is that the company, the agency fulfills that goal. And then the real goal underneath all of that, that you may have known, not knowing you had inside it, didn't get real with yourself. And understand that actually that's actually really what I want to achieve is a big goal in the company that they just, you know, that cause they can help with that too. They don't have to just do the one thing you ask them to do, but they will do that really, really well if you give them that goal.

Speaker 2: (20:48)
So it's interesting. Yeah. I think, and talking to that, which, I don't mind sharing this because I, hopefully some people will, either for that own business, even if they implement their own marketing with their own in-house team or they're looking at an agency and knowing what to ask and what to expect is we've, we've, we've fallen into the trap, on a number of occasions we have become fairly synonymous, especially in the infusion soft world, for being extremely capable of building profitable campaigns and structuring them. And getting the recording and everything out in the right way and you know, with that, people have always got lots of ideas of how they want their internal marketing systems, to be set up in an ideal world. You know, they want 180 day followup, all automated and you know, they want one campaign to cascade into another campaign.

Speaker 2: (21:51)
And then, you know, all of the different conditional logic that you can obviously do with marketing automation, they've got really carried away and excited about it. That's something we're very good at doing. But, the trap that you can often fall into either as a, as a client asking for some of these types of things or as an agency is often, that although you could go and do lots of things that you think may help the client, especially when it comes to building these kind of assets out, that you don't necessarily serve the business very well because you don't yet know that those assets are going to perform well or not until they've been tested. Number one, you should always be led by the data and often clients can fall in love with their own ideas that they want you to get implemented.

Speaker 2: (22:49)
And sometimes as a project manager of an agency or as an implementer within the agency, they can also get carried away and fall in love with the idea of doing certain things that are often very clever and very technical, but don't actually move the business forward. And so you can end up in a situation where two or three months into an arrangement with an agency, what you find is you've built lots of great assets of the business that are the, if you want, like the foundations for the business, which is great. Like building a house. You know, you want to lay the foundations, but the foundations don't necessarily get a specific result, that, that can be tied back to, you know, a return on investment for the client. And although clients all over the client might love the work that you're doing about these kinds of assets in these campaigns, if they're not generating revenue and they're not generating profit, then that isn't great for you.

Speaker 2: (23:54)
So that's one of the reasons why every agency that's been asked to build things that might not directly have an impact, might not have traffic being run to them immediately it is a very good idea to do what I call building a big rock each month, which is custom kind of evergreen, predictable asset that's been built that will at some point have traffic and run to and promotion, created for it, but also some kind of quick win that's very specific to get revenue generation and that appraises and appeases the, the whole idea of getting results. And this one is something that's, that's there for the future, for business, for its own systems and systematization. And so, you know, it's like going ahead and building like a long term nurture email campaign. For some of you that's like a 52 week email campaign, writing all of those emails and putting together a proper nurture cycle.

Speaker 2: (24:59)
If it's not generating revenue, you, your first job as an agency is to think what's the nearest thing to the money? What's the nearest thing? What's the quick win? What's going to give the client confidence from with us? Even if the client's not asking you for that, coming into the conversation saying, Hey, we're very much aware of the long term press bar, prosperity of our relationship is going to be based on how much money we make you, yes or no. Yes, great, cool. So as long as we know that, then we need to get sharply focused on that. Building these things over here are great as well and we can do that simultaneously. But let's focus on getting a result. And that's generally our approach coming into. I believe it's the best approach coming into it. And of course from your perspective, it's different because you're coming into this with, they already have an asset that is built, that should already be performing and, you know, you're going to be land to buy what to do. But I guess from your perspective it's similar when somebody wants to do, you know, something more complicated that they've heard of. But you really know, I mean you just want to get the best result for the client. They just don't know that, you know, they just don't know enough. They don't have enough experience to make an informed judgment over what they should probably do. That's the difference. Right?

Speaker 3: (26:24)
Well this is the thing. So this is why CPI first works so well is that is me funding the advertising and getting paid for the results. So, a client could always say, Oh, I'd love to do this. And I'm like, great, we can definitely do that. But first of all, let's get it all the way positive. And the first thing we need to do is find out what targeting working well for you. Then we can get real fancy with the tele video ads and create but let's start with that. Get some data in and make sure it's a working that your, your funnel performs. Cause I know all ads will perform because that's like, you just know that will be the case so correct. Good ads and several of them if need be we run that traffic and then as soon as we start seeing results, it's great.

Speaker 3: (27:01)
We're often running now we can get a bit more fancy once we've got some more data room the great thing about going CPA is I found the ads and I can go and explore and go and do my research and go and find out new areas and I work, this is a big distinction for us in agencies. I work with the client as opposed to for the clients. So, we're not doing what they ask us to do. We're doing, we're working with them to achieve the result they're looking to achieve. And it's going to be based on financials because that's what I'm in it for as well building a brand is a very important step within that because I need to make sure that we build that brand because then remarketing works a lot more effectively and it kind of helps go number one, which is ROI positive.

Speaker 3: (27:42)
So we're not just gonna create an ad because it's like this is what we'll sell 100%. It's like this is what we'll sell. Plus we've got to pay attention to the fact that we've got to build a good relationship and a good brand there because it's going to help with the longevity of the campaign. So it comes a lot more but the great thing about doing CPA is that the client can inform us of like, here's what we want to do. I'm like, no, no, I'll be the decider of that cause my money I'm spending on the advertising and I'll obviously pay attention to what you do want and what you're promoting. But we wouldn't have done business if it was that, if it was that way in the first place. But we're very clear about that but like was not many people know how YouTube works.

Speaker 3: (28:15)
So we kind of, I'll give them free reign, to a certain extent obviously we've sent the scripts to them and say, make sure you feel really comfortable with them and make it your own, make it your own script, and then say how you wish to to camera and we'll edit it to me perfectly match your brand and so there's a really good message out on YouTube, but I mean, puff net is going to create in that video and then sending it to the website. And then all the targeting is like, some clients will say to us, okay, our best clients are between the ages of 30 and 40. We'll pay attention to that and keep an eye on it. But what we normally find is that we start advertising, like you do have some good closets in 30 and 40, but you'll completely missing out on this huge opportunity, which is your kind of like slightly older or slightly young girl, males or females different, whatever it might be.

Speaker 3: (29:00)
What clients tend to do is they tend to be, confirming their own data. So say for example, they've been promoting and they'd done a JV with a client and they find that like, okay, we just, we just got loads of new clients and they're all male and they're probably all any range. When we did the event we went to where we invited our customers along, all of them were like men between the ages of 40 and 50. And they're like, so that's our client base. It's like funny if it doesn't actually work like that because what you've actually just worked out is like from the other list that you've shared with that other client who already had a predisposition to that particular brands, then they've come to you and then they bought your program and then come to a live event. What you're saying is like all of that audience that likes us, the people that turned up and also people that like events are 40 to 50 year old males that came to our event sort of thing.

Speaker 3: (29:51)
It's like, that's not to say that would be your best customer if even third that incorrectly so when it comes to advertising, it might be like, Hey look, did you know your best audience are actually 30 to 40 year old females and we can promote to them all day long cause they keep on buying your stuff so it's, it's, it's interesting cause the data doesn't lie and the data can always inform, but cold traffic and a new, a new offer to the markets that's not been there before means that we have to sometimes take it a bit of a blank blank canvas. We can know roughly. I mean, if it's going to be advertising false teeth to somebody, you're not going to go for the 18 to 24 year olds. They're not going to buy that sort of stuff but when you're in your like lesser, lesser years, that's gonna be probably something that's gonna be much more.

Speaker 3: (30:35)
It's gonna be a better affinity with that type of audience for sure. But likewise, you wouldn't necessarily advertise high end luxury holidays to a very young audience or a very, very old audience potentially cause there's going to be limitations either financially or physically, whether they can actually go on those adventure holidays for example, to 70 year old plus you might find that you get a less good kind of a connection with the audience there compared to a younger audience, for example so it's kind of like you can, you can infer some information, but it's, I just find it fascinating when the data is actually there and in front of me to cold traffic. It's like, yeah, you said 30 to 40 or you said 40 to 50. Oh, bells. It's not the case that we see that, what you want to do about it.

Speaker 3: (31:18)
Do you want to do, want me to stop advertising to that audience that conversing really well and making a really good profit? Or do you want me to, it's a kind of, should we start looking at this audience a bit more seriously now? And it's just, it's just interesting that it's, I find it like, it's, and unlike was, it's like they might have like, like the perfect client that kind of comes through and buys their particular program that's designed specifically for men between the ages of 40 and 50 later in the funnel. Right. That's different. That's fine. But it's, it's sometimes it's allowing agencies to let them do the best job that they can do without getting in the way of them. Sometimes [inaudible] it depends on what sort of agency you want. And likewise, it might be that you want to go in house and then it becomes a little bit, a little bit more prescriptive to the actual team because they're saying, all right, well, we've only done this with you before.

Speaker 3: (32:01)
That what we need to learn. Like I've done this with hundreds of clients and so on. I picked up knowledge from all those different clients and know where to apply it to most businesses. Now I'm not saying that get it right every single time, but it's getting better. Well, it's on and and that's the thing, right? It's like it's looking at it and thinking, well what do you actually want? And therefore once you know that, what do I actually want and you know, the timing is right then it makes it easy. If you just like what sort of type of agency do we want to go for and what of AdWords do we want to go in the house and both are equally, can be equally as powerful for you cause someone in the house is going to have that full, full, sole attention that business.

Speaker 3: (32:40)
Whereas I wouldn't have my full sole attention on every single client because I've got more clients than one but I mean, well we have project managers that we have people that can be dedicated to it, but then they're going to be more worldly in the world of YouTube advertising and to know more about different businesses and like was the view while they, it's like you don't just pay you to do the thing, you pay for your expertise as well. So when I get there, I'm like, Ali, this is what I've got right now. Do you think it's the best idea for what I want to achieve? And you might say, no, am I great? What do we need to do? And then that's, I'm paying for that years and years and years of experience and knowledge that you have and then the implementation of that as well.

Speaker 3: (33:14)
And that's, that's again, like what you're investing in when it comes to agencies is the brain power behind it. So no, what is a good thing to do? It's not just simply a case of like, Oh, it's going to be a webinar. I'm going to follow this route that this other person has done because that's what you've heard from your marketing mental the, remember the marketing advisors with big lists, who are very, very popular, are giving a one type scenario that fits for a large, large number of people. But every business is bespoke. And so when it actually comes to building a really powerful funnel already powerful advertising campaign, it's going to have to be tailored and bespoke difference everybody else in order to actually be effective. And so that's again, I think by talking to someone like yourself, it's like you, you probably look at it and think, yeah, that how some truth of what that marketing expert is saying, that would work for them. False majority of people, but you're different than the most majority of people and you need something different. And that's the thing is that like, he won't know that something different is until they start paying you and, that's what I say a lot of value that's hidden within an agency.

Speaker 2: (34:20)
Yeah, no, I certainly agree. Lots of takeaways. I find anybody thinking about, considering, you know, employing the services of an agency and how they might be able to think about selecting one of them, some of the things that they should be thinking about as well, going into that kind of arrangement. And then I think that we will probably take some time out on another podcast, to define some of the things that, some of the thought processes that we go through from an either an advertising or a marketing standpoint of, of what you can, what you should be focusing on as an agency. And equally, even if you're not considering an agency, what you could be considering in your own marketing department, in your own business, or, referencing and talking about your, with your own team as well. No, that's all right. Well, look forward to the next episode. Thanks Tom.

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