Speaker 1: (00:00)
You're listening to path to purchase a podcast for passionate and committed business owners and marketers, Oli Billson and Tom Breeze are here to give you the tools and knowledge you need to grow your business and take decisive action. Welcome to the episode.

Speaker 2: (00:14)
Hey, how you doing? This is Oli Billson and welcome to this episode of path to purchase. And I'm of course with my friend, Mr Tom Breeze. How are you doing? Very good. Oli, how are you doing? I'm very well, thank you very well indeed. A little bit more of a casual background for me today it's kind of a studio but in bits and pieces. So, for podcast listeners, it just looks like a tip behind Oli right now and you've just moved into the new office, which is yes, exactly. Yeah, we've moved into the office on, I'm here at the moment. If you can see me, this is the new office and if you can't see me, I'm in a new office. Yeah, nothing too spectacular about that. Apart from the fact that on the very first day I couldn't work out how it actually gets through the front door. But I'm since worked out, you'll be pleased to know that's good news.

Speaker 2: (01:06)
You can get into work and you're in a fortuitous position of course, that you're going to be having a, an actual studio in the office so we've just moved in temporary hair and it was funny cause I literally moved in and then day two of being here, I handed in my notice to say I'm leaving because I want to move to a different office. That hasn't been the quickest turnaround that are experienced here. Two days of being a good, good tenant and then it's like the right amount. Now if it's only because we're moving to a different office, we're going to have slightly more space and we're building a studio like right next door to the office. So it means that I can literally walk from the office, from the main office through one door and right into a green screen studio and it's not going to be green screen studio with like all soundproofing everything.

Speaker 2: (01:57)
I don't need to do kind of the nth degree. When I do, I'll go down to the studio. But, the, but it means it's just like for a sense of ease, I can just walk from one room to another film, a lot of footage. We got the team here to have to edit everything out. It's going to suck up the whole process. And the idea is to create some more content this year. So, yeah, with a book coming out and other bits and bobs that are happening. I just want to make sure that we're kind of like, we're up to date with all the videos, making sure that our YouTube presence is really strong and stuff. And it could do with a bit of an update as well. You've got to practice what you preach. Right. So cause I feel like a bit like the dentist of the bad teeth or the, or the that same analogy when it comes to other things, it's very much like, I feel like we're not, well, we, we, we do a really good job with our clients. Don't get me wrong, but, when it comes to Robin's stuff, we don't do a huge amount of promotion and stuff and it just because we're, it's not our priority most of the time, but I'm, I'm making it a priority for this year. So as of, or got lot of traveling to do, through San Diego and Sydney, but then buy it back at the start of April and that's when we move into the new

Speaker 3: (03:00)
office with the studios and hopefully it's already assaulted was always when I get back, it's all just done, move on and just get, yeah, yeah, yeah. Never works out exactly as you put it to, but to be able to get it all sorted. So hopefully, I'll walk in and just be able to shoot video from day one, especially when we talk, it's interesting actually, the fact that you, you know, you've gone with this, you know, you've kind of come into any office and all, are you staying in the same vicinity? You can get, you know, another studio we did pretty much the same thing when we got into our new offices and actually we're moving again, as well. So that's quite funny. Way outgrown where we are we have been here for a while though, so when we first moved in, so the first thing I did, we put a studio up and, I hate putting a lapel Mike on.

Speaker 3: (03:45)
I just hate putting a lapel mic on. And so I always wanted a room with a shotgun. Mike made it that easy to [inaudible] in front of the camera and just put it back, you know, background up and record some good quality videos. And, actually, for some of our clients I'd suggested it for one of our clients does a dermatology, they have a clinic in London and they kind of got a small room and I said, this is absolutely perfect for doing, you know, a testimonial videos just kind of onsite ready to go and really kind of give you an address. I might have to do that because you can get them like, tightens the seat and can't use. So it's just like hung out of commercial but then just looks, yeah, I think there's, there's a certain amount of like, knowing that when you've got a lapel mic on, the audio is going to be good quality and you have to really worry about it too much.

Speaker 3: (04:35)
But if you, I think the positioning of the, Oh, sorry, the positioning of the shotgun mites, the tough bit, but just staying still right. It shouldn't be too difficult. So yeah, that looks up at me. 66 and hydro me 66 great microphone. Just saying that's the shotgun, right. Shotgun absolutely amazed me. 66. Okay, cool. Thanks. Yeah, I'm going to find the link and I'll buy it. I'll just remember it's like a massive snake. One Oh nine, you know, just the Emmy. Sexy, sexy. I don't know why those two correlate in my mind together. Absolutely take three different things. But yeah. Looks fair enough.

Speaker 3: (05:11)
So, yeah. All good. In fact, we should probably put in the description of one of these podcasts, a kind of what we use, you know, I know that we have the same camera, and you know, ring light. What ring light, you know, what are the key lighting and you know, what's the background, where'd you get this stuff? And we'll probably put some links in there. There won't be affiliate links by the way. We're not that hard of a word be my affiliate things. It's good to, nothing making me rich yet fine. Speaking of that, cause I know we had a different idea for this podcast or whatever. I think we did this in the last podcast episode as well what would you say is like the equipment that you use on a daily basis that you think I couldn't live without this? Is there a few things that you think these are essential for you to run your yeah. Yeah, I think the first thing has got to be depos D a Paul see, so we looked at the polls so we didn't go for it in the end, but I, I love that was my, like my number one. But because I think we're an AdWords agency or really a video, we went with them. Suedo cause it can do a lot more reporting and, and it's like, it's built for an acquisition agency. So it fit fit for us. But I saw the pulse and I did like it. Yeah.

Speaker 3: (06:23)
Well we're kind of like you as well where both buy into the scrum agile, world of, of doing things methodology. And we've run our agency in all of our projects within, you know, that kind of thinking. And so DePaul's fit that really well. Trello was an option and we've used it before and, and done lots of cool things with it and, but, really DePaul's was good. In fact, funny story. Not that I'm proud of this in any way, but just the tone of voice. I'm shady. It's so shady, but I say it just because maybe some people are resonate with it. They've done this in the past and made a mistake. So the Pope's is project management software works great with scrum and it's very flexible with whatever cat and frankly you want to use it for. But, they're quite expensive and because we've kind of got quite a few staff members, I think we have like 25 users on the thing and that can get quite expensive. And so we bought a year long package and I think it was like three grand Sterling so you know quite, but really it's pales into insignificance when you consider the value of running the projects anyway.

Speaker 3: (07:43)
And any case we I sort of, you know, have my financial reviews, we do monthly management accounts and stuff and I actually do a weekly financial overview for management, information and not management reports in kind of like, you know, we're quite good with the numbers and I noticed that this figure hadn't come out anyway what happened, just to backtrack before that, we kind of, you know, knew we were going to do this and I get an Amex statement and I put all of our business, you know, stuff through our Amex card. We were just talking about this before we got on the call and anything that I like, you know, every now and again when you've got so many different subscriptions and we've got loads probably like you, it's scary that everything seems to be like that these days.

Speaker 3: (08:34)
And I remember seeing this charge on the credit card and I was like, what the hell is this? I've got no idea what it is. Charge it back, not say it. I've never bought anything from blue snap. What, what is this blue snap don't, we couldn't find out. Now the logical thing is whoever's calves, of course they go and find out who the hell blue snap is. And it was just literally no information. So we thought it was just so bizarre. We actually, I think they bookkeeper rang Wrangham max up and said, Oh, we got this, this charge. We're not sure what it is. Can you investigate? They didn't know, obviously, whatever. We just suggest that, you know, we look into it as a fraudulent transaction. Had to have any cards and everything else. It was horrible. I was going away at the time as well, and it was just a nightmare, you know, not have my cards just because of this thing.

Speaker 3: (09:27)
And now you do notice it, you know, that kind of money going out on the card. And then we just got a call from DePaul to saying, Oh, we've really, sorry you've been using our software for three months now. And well you charged it back. We can say that you, I was like, Oh, that's what it was. I was like, Oh damn. They're like, Oh, it's happened before. And so this was a learning point for me. If you sell online courses, if your Stripe account, actually the, the name of what you sell isn't the S the company name is different from the trading name or something like that on the co on the statement, make sure it's the same or when you've sold something, make sure that this will appear, this subscription or whatever will appear on your statement. Otherwise people will do that because they don't know anything else. So anyway, I've got three months free. That was the win for that.

Speaker 3: (10:36)
So, DePaul Slack would be another big thing and I personally use WorkFlowy as a, as a, as a great tool for our outlining the post in timelines as well. Didn't they recently? Yeah, really, really good. Yeah. Really good kind of gives you a good idea of the capacity in which the different team members are working. So we break our business down into all the different departments, infusion soft web development, web design, graphic design, content writing, sales copy, you know, all of the video production, video editing, all of this stuff. And we can basically see per team member, you know, how much they've got on that plate at any given time which is this is great with that new feature through DePaul Justin, I'm probably like, you know, I'm always searching for him. Probably a lot of the people on the call, you're always looking for that kind of silver bullet or that thing that's just gonna make something that just that little bit easier to manage your team with or even yourself with for years, and I still use this personally, I still use OmniFocus for Matt.

Speaker 3: (11:54)
Yeah, I love it and he's kind of getting things done by David Allen. If you've ever had that book, it's great. Works very well with that. But really when you start to grow a team, especially an agency like both of ours really, you know, one of the key things is making sure that you're on points as far as deliverables or concerns. I, where the poles is, is the wind and we even let our clients to, to, to their own boards on, on DePaul so they can see everything that's happening.

Speaker 2: (12:23)
It's interesting because I think that the one thing I found by trying to implement loads of different project management tools, is, is the psychology that goes behind it as well. Right? So like for me as a business owner, I'm not, I don't want to be involved in any of the task notifications because I get enough email already that I don't necessarily need to handle straight away. That kind of gets hounded by the team. There's obviously important ones. It needs a handle. But, when you're doing the project management, I know that I don't want to be bothered by the day to day activity that the team should and could be doing, but I want to be sure that I can check on it and I need to but I was in a meeting with the whole team and it was really interesting with one person, what they said is like, well, I want to make sure that I've got something where I can do it, click the checkbox and then it's over to the next person so that in a month's time or in a week's time, I think it might have been, they said, if they were to say, Oh, you never sent me that, I can say, well like I did cause I'm here.

Speaker 2: (13:17)
Here's when the day I did it and it's notified. I was like, that's all good and well saying it's off your plate now and it sounds to somebody else's plate sort of thing and Hey, that's nothing to do with me anymore because I've done my, I can scrum up on my sprints or to my bed. But I was like, that's not the way to think about this because it's like that still means that as an agency we haven't done the job or it means the client has and it falls down because someone's like, well it's my fault because I did click that button that said it's your tasks.

Speaker 3: (13:42)
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So that was really interesting for me to listen to that. And as a result we made it very clear that's not the way to run it. But it was just interesting from a business like top down perspective when I was looking at it and thinking, how are we going to get everyone aligned and work on the same page versus how they sometimes think about using the software as well and so, we like it, it was just, it was as a thought from somebody that now has changed a few points. But I mean it was interesting just to see how, how I'm sure that it's at a base level, at some points in everyone's minds be like, I do my job is open to the next person is myself, my plate.

Speaker 3: (14:24)
Yeah. I actually, it's really funny you say that because, I think that there's a real distinction while there is a distinction and I want it is, but between abdication and delegation and you know, when you abdicates and think your simply really not really bothering what happens beyond when you hand it off to somebody cause those, he's delegating it and he's actually giving them everything that they need in order to move forward in a meaningful manner and you know, there's a big difference. There's a big disparity in that I mean, one thing that I'd advise anybody on the call or just general communications, even if you're just a one man business or whatever, there's two less the IP all the time. Absolutely religiously. And one is an agenda list. So an agenda list is everybody that I deal with regularly or my team members, even, my, my partner, Lindsey, whatever, and I write down for every single person and the agenda items.

Speaker 3: (15:32)
So, or things that I need to talk to them about specifically. So that means that when I see that team member, when I see that person, I've got a list of things that I'm going to speak to them about and then generally the second list that works well with that is I waiting for list. So the same team members or whatever are duplicated onto their waiting for less, those things that I asked them about then get moved to the waiting list. So then next time I can batch process all of these things together. So it can be, here's some things I need to talk to you about. Great. So now there's some things that I'm waiting for. Oh, and by the way, here's the thing that I'm still waiting for because when you're really busy, it's like, you know, I just, you forget and then you can end up in a bit of a situation where you have abdicated and not done something delegate because they might not have all the resources and that visit. So, and they might not be quite as well organized. And I think you need to be a bit organized and make it work. Whoever you are. Those are my two to less than I keep all the time on the, on the go. Really.

Speaker 2: (16:39)
So, okay. So just on this, cause I want to talk about other tools and things that you use to run your business and stuff as well when you, how much autonomy would you give a person? So do you let them have their own spin on the actual software they're using to say like, okay, look, you're in charge of this process. How have you want to build that process? You'd go for it as long as we get the outcome. Because if you weren't doing it day to day, they'll know it's better to do it, their own wage. And I mean if you said right, you need to do a to Zed cause that's what you want to see. But really they need to do like 12 of those processes instead of 26 of them or something. They can jump a few steps. Nine times out of 10. How much autonomy did you give to them to say, well, it's kind of their process, their thing they're in every day versus how much top down is it sort of, well, this is how I've always done it. You do it my way. So yeah.

Speaker 3: (17:28)
Well I guess I kind of got a bit of a headstart on maybe my thought process around that because coming from kind of franchising and licensing and Yael and all the standard operating practices is you've got to have a system for the system. So when you have a process for what the process is, so you ultimately want people to begin to create that own or improve processes. So we have a process or procedures doesn't exist. You want them to create one, but you need to define what the confines are of the process to create that system. And so Google docs is a great tool for this because, you can make sure that they are always up to date. There's commenting, there's access rights and privileges, different team members. And the first document to produce in all of this is how do you create a procedure?

Speaker 3: (18:24)
What's the expectation? So regardless of if they're going to do, if they're going to do something that's new or you know, I'm talking about this from a team member, a marketing agency point of view, but it really could be any business that's trying to create systems. If you've got staff, you need to define how they should create that system, and that way and also there's a process for updating an existing system as well. So that doing all of these things in a Google doc helps. Having a library or like a table of contents of procedures and processes that link out to all of the different documents works really well the, the, the numerous kind of thought processes around that. But the other thing is, well, if you're a business owner, the best thing that you can do to start creating these systems is actually not doing the systematization yourself.

Speaker 3: (19:18)
So what, what are you, what I tend to do is I'll give you an example. One of the tools we use for all of our tracking is called wicked reports powerful tool and when you buy a wicked reports account for us in our cases for a client, there is a process to authenticate all of the Facebook ads that you know, to validate them that they are synced with wicked reports. And so we can begin tracking well that actually might seem like a, a technical analytics guy kind of job. It's not just an admin task and so what I did, I'll just record a screen flow of my, of me doing that task and that will be another one of my tools by the way, screen flow, or or Snagit is another one of my favorite ones.

Speaker 3: (20:12)
Screencastify on Chrome and that's free as well. Right? You can just install the extension and there's a free version. But the reason I like it is because it, it sinks in Google Chrome or sorry, Google drive. So as soon as you've done a video uploads an immediate, you can share with people embedded whatever you want to do with it. And it's kind of by using the power of and the player of YouTube, it's really easy. Yeah. Anyway, you were discussing, so I just record me doing that process and, and I think the problem is when people know business owners know that they should be doing this stuff all the, but they just think, Oh, it's easy if I do it like it's easy if I just do this rather than give it to somebody else, I can just do this quite fast level. They get frustrated with somebody.

Speaker 3: (20:56)
So I know that I do that as well. So the easiest way to break through that is to say, okay my look, I'm just going to record this. Just may sometimes talking, not some meat, some times not talking. And then I hand that over to my assistant. And you know, if you haven't got an assistant, you probably are one, so that's probably something you want to fix so yes, give it to an assistant and just say go to the process document and create a procedure from this. And what she'll do is she'll go and take the video and she'll pause the video at certain parts and he'll take a screenshot of the actual video and annotate the video screenshot that there's a reason why to do that because a lot of people now believe that video would be great. And you're talking over the video. Honestly, if you're trying to follow a process or a procedure, it needs to be, you can't just keep flicking through things and sometimes is, there's lots of issues that can be a cause your problems are. So I don't believe in videos unless you're using video to support the, you know, the procedure, the annotations that you, the screenshots you're doing rarely, well, let me, let me, let me introduce a new tool for you as well then if you haven't heard of. Have you heard of screen steps?

Speaker 3: (22:19)
No, I like this. I like the sound Reddit. I like the sound.

Speaker 2: (22:23)
What you do is you go through it and you, and you press like screen grab and then you can annotate it immediately and it saves it into documents but then what's great about it is that you can embed that document automatically into any webpage you like. And also, so if you make a change later on and you republish it, it'll get republished onto your website without you having to make any changes so you can work inside the system. And, yeah, it's very, very powerful. It's it, it's not cheap. I don't know how much it is, but it's not, it's, it's something where you kind of think, well, they're not gonna use every day. You feel like, well, it's cost me monthly money. But once you, once you've built it and you can download the PDFs and things, then you're good to go. But we love it because it's useful when your, when you're documenting something that changes quite regularly, like YouTube ads do, they always move stuff and stuff and so it's great, we can just go in, edit the one page that we need to or go through that process again.

Speaker 2: (23:13)
Cause it's you just follow along with the previous process. Just update it. Yeah. But I agree with you. I think the videos are grateful. Like the first time someone sees it happen it's like, you know when you read a good book, you read the first time through, you got it, love it, love the books. But then when you actually want to implement it, you don't want to read the whole book again or watch a video or something. You kind of like just want to just want, have the steps in front of you, the checklist in place as opposed to having to watch and breastplate and stop and then follow along. I've seen it all before. Let's just go through step by step. So I agree with you. Screens is a really useful tool for that. And then in terms of a resource for anybody listening, just wondering guys, that sounds quite interesting. You know, I know I've read the math, you know, or I know I've, you know, people have told me to systemize things. People have told me to document things people tell me to create procedures and processes. Yeah. Where's the best place to start with that and a good book to look at to begin with. There's a book by Sam carpenter called work the system, I believe and you know, really kind of lays out for you, a number of a number of things that give you some guidance framework to, to, to consider when, when, when doing this in order for you to scale. And I think the truth is here is that I, you probably wouldn't have been able to scale some of my, my businesses, beyond a certain point without taking the, taking consideration of these things. I just don't believe that you can grow and scale things effectively without it so, you know, having that Google Drive and Google doc library is really important and having a, a system for the system, so everything's kind of kept together is super important so yeah, I think obviously Infusionsoft is my other Ang, right I've got and I use it, but I'm [inaudible] like the Ferrari in the garage without a driving license. Is that what you're trying to say?

Speaker 2: (25:24)
Yeah. Or whether once upon a time wanted to drive the Ferrari and now [inaudible] really, I don't know, I'm not a big fan of infusion soft. I think it's the most powerful. And so I get that. And I, there's no argument for that. I don't think there's other tools out there. I know it's one of those things we start talking about a CRM software or something and there's always people that are like massive advocates of different things. I've tried a lot and you know what? Simplicity wins the day for me all the time. I don't know how to send an email from infusion soft or I do, but I don't feel confident about sending an email from infusion soft. I think when you're at that stage, and, and I'm the one who would want to send the emails. I think it's the wrong system for me.

Speaker 2: (26:04)
I think it's clever in terms of all the different things you can do, the automatic followup and everything. I'm sure it can be done on the other CRNs as well, but there's just seems to be a, I wish it was a button to say I want to email everybody, all the people that I should email now and then you can do it through tax and stuff. But God almighty, like the amount of difficulty it comes to like making sure that your tax and then you can remember which tags they all are. It's just sometimes a bit too difficult for me to get my head around completely. And I think when it gets to that stage I lose lose the will to actually send the emails. And I don't think, I think I sent like three emails in the last year and a half. I don't send emails out, but it's from a broadcast perspective. But I think that's, that's probably because I have a personal one to one relationship with pretty much all my clients. I don't do that much work on the, on the, on the scale of like mass audiences and things that's going to change, I'm sure but it's just, it's, I don't know. It's an interesting one. I don't feel like I've got used to Infusionsoft and I don't think I ever will, but myself, I know I'm self aware of the fact that, yeah, yeah. I mean, I feel fine. You probably are, you know, you're open to the fact that that's the case of you, you, you know, you've come to the realization that's the case. And that's good as well because you know what you know, and you know that you don't necessarily need to worry about that. Or even if you're even remotely interested in developing any part of you to improve the way you work with it or to understand it more. And that's really where, people come in to help other people do it. The problem is often they don't make that decision early enough. And to be honest, even, you know, we work with and just like you do, you know, we work with some really, really high end and our clients that are actually synonymous with getting results with infusion soft yet takes actually us. There's an hour agency that do all of their infusion soft for them which is why we're going with you.

Speaker 3: (28:13)
Exactly. You know, it just, it just, it just makes sense that you know, you, you've got to, you've got to understand where you, you realize the most value. And that's probably not implementing Infusionsoft campaigns. And although there was a time when I used to do that as well, and that's where some of my unique ability came from even nowadays, you know, I just know we had a small campaign last week, a little cash, cash surge campaign, cash with the four day cash machine. I'm just not, even though I know how to do it, I'm just, it's just not of interest to me to do that right now and know it's gonna give me, it's not really, here's a question. Who do you think should be doing infusion soft? Who do you think like, do you think an entrepreneur as a business owner at any point be getting involved with infusion soft? Oh yeah. Interesting. Okay.

Speaker 3: (29:09)
Absolutely not. I think it's important to have, to have a, an appreciation for the power of what it can do. And I don't think you should ever stop developing your knowledge around the possibilities, but I don't think that, you know, that, that there might be a reason why as an entrepreneur or business owner, you may want to harness the power of infusion soft and, you know, drive it yourself it could come down to costs that could come down to a lot of different things. It might just come down to the fact that you just need to learn enough to know that whoever's doing it for you is doing it the way that it should be done. But I think if you, you, you partner with people that have a proven track record in what they do with infusion soft, you can't go, I say you can't go too wrong.

Speaker 3: (30:01)
You still need to be selective and do your due diligence. But I think that whoever's buildings to for you needs to document stuff. And so, you know, for all our clients, we have a knowledge base we create for them. I can only talk with what we do. I don't know what anyone else does. But you know, from what I've heard, people like this, and I will say to rule, even if you don't know Infusionsoft, you need to know the customer journey. You need to know the lead to customer journey and, and unless you know that, and it's got to be documented, it's got to be so that things are built in a certain way that anybody else can go in beyond us, beyond our existence as an agency. And know exactly what may be a problem or that may need improving or customizing. That's so super important. So I do think it's a good conversation to have, but for me, you know, once it's your question, I don't think entrepreneurs weren't may well entrepreneurs. It's a perfect fit for all of the ideas and creativity under the sun, that's for sure, but yeah, but ultimately, no it's just some of the thing I'll tell you with the YouTube ads and any advertising, in fact it, the business owner should not be getting involved with that process. There's too many other, it's a really important process for sure, but it's too specialized as to it's too individualized and it's like to learn it properly and spend time on other things. Is the important things about building a business is this is a silly thing to do? I think so yeah, it's a bit like I was having a conversation with the client about, like he had these VA well dating Facebook ads and what she was actually trying to do, what she was trying to achieve was predicated on a technical understanding of how to use power editor. Not coming from a place of being a marketer or being experienced in advertising. And so, you know, learning the system is one thing, but then actually being able to do something with it that's going to get results is a completely different of a thing. Just because they know how to use power editor or can watch some videos on the operation of it doesn't necessarily mean you can fully harness or leverage its power entirely anyway. Because a lot of the things that you could do with that are based on the knowledge of marketing and advertising and what you're doing with it yeah, it's pretty, pretty important to them to send that.

Speaker 2: (32:38)
So let's go through some other things. Like, I mean I know that will probably be tight for time on this cause we, we tend to go off on tangents, but I keep telling myself that anyway, this is, let us know I don't know how you can let us know because I don't know anything about podcasting apart from can we help them, the classic case of not knowing how to do some stuff. I think they people, I mean for me, I, I, I'm always interested to know what people use, you know, what makes them effective, productive and you know, we're always interested in that stuff. And so I think this is the reason why this is, this is good really, do you know what yesterday, just so you just give people the peek into what we're up to yesterday I found was doing one of the most complicated thing we've ever done in the agency, I think, which is like a different type of campaign build.

Speaker 2: (33:29)
We'll talk about it in future episodes, but there's a really complicated approach and we've, we've nailed it. It took me to kind of like have my idea and put down on a whiteboard. I did it on a big whiteboard to begin with. Then I talked it through with some of the team members and they watched me go through it, which meant I could tweak it and improve it and say I am, can't do that. We've got to do it this way. Then we go, I'll ad-words team with us to come in and, and look at everything. And there were certain things that they corrected and changed and things and then we did the build out, everyone in the office together and we still, as we were building up and building it out, we still found little tweaks and changes. Now we've kept on changing the whiteboard and we've got this big white board with loads of edits on it or tweaks and slight little bits to do and things.

Speaker 2: (34:12)
But now we can look at it over here on the left hand side. It's a lot of red marks all over the place and stuff. But now I know that I've got that. We've all worked. We will prove that it works that way. And based on the results we get from the campaign, we're hoping that it's going to work incredibly well. So new type of campaign that we're building, I know that I'm going to take a photo of that and also just like document it down into step-by-step cause it's such a complicated bill. When you do it first time round, you just need to be able to like trust in the system afterwards to be like, right, this is what I do. A, B, C, D, E, F, G. so it's difficult to know like when you build it, it's like knowing where the why and the and the reasons behind it. But now it's become the system. But just for people listening in, it was a case of like developing an idea and running it past an increase in the number of people inputting on it and then during the build and just doing altogether, there's a classic case of just humans in a room and a whiteboard and just kind of going through it and then doing the build and just keep on changing. And editing things. So you're saying your tool is a whiteboard and just verbal communication.

Speaker 2: (35:17)
So and it's interesting cause like either I hardly ever send emails out to a list I I do a lot of different types of communications so I very rarely do a big long email. There's not, if it is, it's templated but I'll just do a video like this to clients I use, I used to use something called Bumble, so it's B O M B BOM b.com. Cause you can do videos from your phone and then just send them on to people very quickly I use an audio recorder for voice messages for clients, which is called voice extra voice recorder but it's pretty and you can just drag and drop recordings of your voice into an email and say, listen to this. And it's just really useful because I can just verbalize what I want to say instead of typing it all out.

Speaker 2: (36:03)
My written English, I find it more difficult to express what I mean by in text. And I do want to just speaking, but then with Screencastify you can record yourself as well and you're sending client videos and stuff. Clients absolutely love it. I find it 10 times easier. And it's just a case of like just banging out videos and communication like that is so much, so much simpler. But if I genuinely want to get a feeling across to the client, I can't do that via text very easily. Well I can do it in a video really easily so it's, yeah, a lot of like my tools kind of I use are not necessarily built for mass communications emails and CRMs and, and stuff. And it's a lot of it's like in house on the whiteboard, work it out and then turn it into an SOP.

Speaker 2: (36:45)
And I'm, I'm a big fan of scr so when I read the book, I only took a few things out of that. But, I really liked the idea of doing a project, and having everything like project-based, like in a factory sourcing and when we work on campaigns or when we work on anything with a client is very much like, here's a task that needs to be done from start to finish. Everything needs to be put into that task and it takes three hours to do so then you just book it into the diary and like, great, I know I've got plenty of time to do it in three hours. There's no rush. There's no like pain points around that sort of thing. So I know that like, right, I can allocate, the team to learn those particular projects so they can do it.

Speaker 2: (37:23)
And it's like, right, here's a standard operating procedure that you do as a lot of flexibility within it, but it's like from start to finish this what needs to happen and it's great cause you can just allocate and delegate to a certain extent right. This client needs this, go and do that. This client needs this, go and do that. It's gotten, is this going to do that and it means that we just move along the system very, very quickly indeed and Swados great for it from a standpoint of like building out tossed and then as SLPs and we used to read like Trello for that reason cause you can move people along the board quite nicely, but yeah, we like reading books, a scrum and turning everything into sprints of like how long something takes and then having like the, the step by step to go through that one section of like another 20 step projects for example, means that just everything just gets done properly.

Speaker 2: (38:08)
And it is about making sure it's like a one standard operating procedure for pretty much every step. Even when even if, however, you think, things could get really creative and you, there was still an SOP behind it I've just set up an interview actually with, a creative director of a video agency and that we very much like about, like, we love creative, but we're very much about the return on investment first with campaign. So we know what works really well when it comes to creating videos, but she's done a lot of videos with like Vodafone and all the big brands and things creatively about what the message might be. And, so I'm, I'm getting an inbound an interview very soon we'll make sure we stick it up into the blog and stuff, but the, but I'm going to try and get her to kind of talk to me in such a way where I can process it into, into some sort of sip.

Speaker 2: (38:54)
So in her head it's probably just like, it's like creative cloud, whereas me, it's like, all right, I'm going to take that information, turn it into a system. Sorry. It's books like scrum and the EMF and things that have really helped me do that. And it's enabled us to really scale very quickly, not in terms of being like getting good results for clients and that sort of stuff, but also making sure the team can grow quickly as well. Cause you know, where to plug the gaps. It's not just like I'm going to hire someone to hopefully help is I can hire someone to say you're going to be doing this bit and this bit and this bit for example. And then it just becomes much easier.

Speaker 3: (39:28)
Yeah. I think, yeah, I think I definitely agree with that. And I also think that the communication points between all of that stuff is super important. And, I know I mentioned it before, but tools like Slack, we don't do any email internally. Now everything's through Slack, ever be probably on the calls going, Oh yeah, you know, I'm a con of converted to Slack for sure we also use a tool that's a little bit more little known. We have some of our team, we run a more of a distributed, team. So some of them are working from home. I'm not many, but we, I have quite flexible, quite a lot of flexibility in our agency. Most people work from the office, but there are some, the, the, the work from home whenever they want to and when they do, we use a tool called Sococo.

Speaker 3: (40:22)
How do you spell that? Okay, good point. Ass. O, C O C O a. So that's S I, C O, C O and M is like a virtual office and every, it's free, you can get, I can't remember how many people can get in, but like 15 people or whatever and everybody logs them and you know when people are at lunch or they can jump into your room, you can do a video conference immediately. You can talk to them you can, you know, when you do your day standup meeting, everybody can jump in wherever they are into the main room that, that, that they are. You can see everybody with these little dots so you know where everybody is and then you can see who's meeting who. So if that is all the stuff like that and it's, it's, it's free and we, we use that all the time, within, within the business, to communicate which is, which is key, different from like zoo.

Speaker 3: (41:26)
They've, if you do external meetings, I still think zoom is probably your best bet away from things like Skype stuff. But zoom is good, but so cocoa is very good and it can actually also, you can also get links directly to your office and send that externally and people come straight into it. It works from Chrome so everybody can get into it, easily turn that tab into a video conference really quickly. So it really nice tool that, I just wanted to add in there isn't one of my final things and just having to look at it now. That's good. Interesting. Yeah. Okay. Let's book cost. Nice. Good. Love it. Oh, and one more. One more ever. This could go on. I'm kind of looking around the office to think, right. We use max, there's this thing called computers or nosy. It is pivotal to running your business.

Speaker 3: (42:26)
This is, maybe everybody on the call, I must be able to relate with. This is one thing that really annoys me more than anything else, is where you've got so many different devices these days to capture ideas down on. And because we're so digital or even paperless, some people they often want to use as a nay or they want to use, I mentioned WorkFlowy, but there's nothing better. You mentioned a whiteboard. There's nothing better than a good old moleskine notebook, especially if you're in a meeting. You know, everybody hates you tapping away in a meeting of the year, you know, that you're trying to take notes. And so I love using the mole skin and I've always struggled with the fact that like, that's okay, but my ideas can't really get downloaded anywhere. And that's an issue. However, there's a solution. I'm the solution. I love it. I love it. How you build up to it. It's so good. Yeah. Yeah. I could've gone really deep, like real problem, agitate problem, but, no. So you, what you need in your life, these prescription like you need is a live scribe.

Speaker 1: (42:59)
Pen with the mold skin that comes with it. They do a live Scot. This is the only way you can talk to it. Right? You can do like the MP3 and then then it based on the page area and it can, it will tell you the MP3 that you recorded that time. Yeah.

Speaker 1: (43:17)
And, and what it will do, digitize what you handwriting from your mole skin straight up into the cloud, put it into a PDF, you'll click on the PDF, it'll play back the audio that was in that meeting. And in that exact point it's absolutely perfect. So finally you can get digitized notes and leave and do a character recognition on the note and it will end. It will put it into normal type as well. That doesn't work well for me cause my writing is terrible. But what I use this for is often I'm drawing funnels out or I'm coming up with different ideas or different ways of testing things. And so I can just draw a quick process map of what I think that might be even talk while I'm doing it. Then it loads to the cloud and I can send that to a team member. And I've still got the physical version of the notebook as well to refer back to myself as well as I've been up in the cloud. Massive, massive hack really for anybody who's listening to this, wondering what that's about. If you've tried like an Apple pencil and got frustrated with that, with an iPad or whatever this is a good solution for you.

Speaker 2: (44:26)
So something else, your question on this, cause I've seen someone use it before and give me a demo and I thought it was amazing and it's difficult to explain it until you actually see it in action. So go and check out the videos on their website because I think just seeing, it's a couple of videos. I'm gonna go and watch a minute. But, so say for example, I was, let's say traveling on the train and I was making some notes on my moleskin paper. It's actually paper, right? It's not like there's no paper, but it's done in a grid way that dependency nods or something. So I drew it out. Are you saying then when I say upload to the cloud or something like that, whatever, ill actually have that drawing in the cloud? Correct. Yeah that's amazing.

Speaker 1: (45:09)
Yeah, it's amazing. And I used to have this I used to have this thing similarly to that which was a whiteboard that was a piece of, it was actually a piece of glass, so it wasn't a white board. It was a glass board but you got round and maybe Tony you could give some the URL and when you write on it, it would put what you're doing right onto that URL as like an online whiteboard. So when you're sharing with a client, you could actually draw out on a normal glass board whiteboard situation and they would see it directly in a, in a web browser live. Well, that's pretty cool. That's a cool, cool thing, do you know what's called it is called? I will find out. It's something, so it's like a whiteboard on like an online, offline, online whiteboard.

Speaker 1: (46:05)
Yeah, that's it. So you and I'll, I can't remember the exact name of it. I'll, I'll, well that's what it should be called offline, online white board, smart board I think is what they're commonly called. But this, this has a very particular use because it's a, you know, got this URL that you share and you can pick up on it. And the best thing is what's the worst thing we want with whiteboards, fastballs or whatever you want. You write on it and then you're like, shit, I've run out of space. I can't do anymore. Right. I just love the way you sell it. What's the one problem with that? Why is the one problem with that you, you've run out of space design, they run out of space very quickly. Here's the beautiful thing. So with this device, you can actually take a photo. It takes a photo of what you've drawn, you rub out the whiteboard or glass board, carry on writing, and then it will just create another PDF sheet of that drawing you say is very cool. It's a cool, but I could geek out on this stuff all day. It's just unbelievable. Was a problem for everything and give a solution a problem.

Speaker 2: (47:15)
Yeah. Is that precisely, that's what we always do. Okay. So, we can, we've been through CRMs although my lack of knowledge about CRMs and your extensive knowledge about CRMs we have been through the echo smart pen, the live scribe thing, your clever whiteboard thing that you'll find late for and what else did we go through? Our [inaudible] slash. [inaudible] so go get the scrum book in his book is good. The posts he likes as well. Yeah we use Slido, S w Y, D O and also just on another point on this. I think that it's always good to go back to a really easy to read book which is built to sell. I think that that is a really good I think there's a great book. I think it's a great way of thinking about combining that with like scrum and the E myth, those three books together. I think a really helpful in terms of how to think about your business, not only from a strategic point of view, but also from a building outset so you can scale and optimize it from that. It's been a long podcast. I hope the listeners are still listening in. I hope that people that are watching are still watching, but I think it's been amazing. It's been very useful now. Good. Cheers Tom. Look forward to seeing you in the next one. See your next one, buddy.

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