You're listening to path to purchase a podcast for passionate and committed business owners and marketers, Oli Billson and Tom Breeze are here to give you the tools and knowledge you need to grow your business and take decisive action. Welcome to the episode.
Speaker 2: (00:14)
Hey everybody, this is Tom Breeze and also with me, we have mr Oli Billson and welcome to another episode of path to purchase. So in the previous episode we were talking about survey funnels and we were really kind of going through a bit of an autopsy, not only of my own survey funnel, which I call it a discovery tool for the agency that's working extremely well, so far. But I'm also, we kind of like, it's not the case studies and some other of funnels that people have been putting together, kind of going through what we like, what we don't like about them but what I think is very powerful is the fact that we are seeing these funnels now work incredibly well with stats behind them and it just proving that this is going to be the future. So if you didn't catch the last episode, go and grab it because it will make so much more sense as we move into this episode and this episode.
Speaker 2: (01:07)
Oli, I really want to dive into the idea of like once someone has been through the funnel, they've answered the questions you've got for them. At that point they're expecting some sort of delivery cause I know we've also talked about actual delivery of content and whether people are consuming as well, which is going to be interesting to tie this in as well. But in terms of the process that I've taken, I've gone through a process of creating bespoke videos for people's answers. So for me, there's six questions and based on those answers there's going to be eight potential outcomes and therefore I created eight completely bespoke videos. They follow similar content, but the answers to the survey questions I've had for them really guide how I'd speak in the videos. And so it's me just talking it through with a computer screen behind me and eight very different videos.
Speaker 2: (01:58)
And then at the end of each one of those videos is a call to action to say, Hey, go and check out the sales page for this kind of audit and a strategy process. We call it a map session. So a master ad plan, and it's working incredibly well, but I know that based on people's answers right now, it's built and it's working I've not optimized the process. I've got very little email marketing off the back of it right now we've got very little remarketing, to get more conversions going through the process but we've had seven people out of 50, so far by the map session for $500. So I know it's working incredibly well but talk to me in terms of like what you would advise people to do. So I think I've done some good strong stuff in terms of the actual video, being delivered as soon.
Speaker 2: (02:45)
Like on the thank you page, there's no email waiting for it to arrive but, what would you look to make sure that's in there in terms of making sure that we maximize the conversions but also maximize the user experience? I really come at this from the perspective of user experience to begin with, but it just so happened that the conversions are working incredibly well as well, which is nice so, in terms of making like you give like a wow factor, you make sure you deliver some amazing content and give the whole experience an amazing kind of process. What, what do you think would be the best or a few tips of people thinking for those people that are thinking about building a survey funnel of some sort for their own business?
Speaker 3: (03:24)
Yeah, sure it's, I know that you're having a really good results at the moment from the, from the process that you're using and just like everything you've gotta start somewhere before you start to optimize it. You know, me speak about this a lot, that you have to kind of get clear on what you want to have happen first. Naturally go. And do it, then you want to kind of, sort of amplify it, and optimize it. And then thirdly, you want to kind of customize it. And, and so those are kind of the three phases that we look at any given situation from where you are. So before kind of starting this kind of survey funnel and thinking that it's a good idea, the third first thing you need to do is decide on what you want to have happen and actually go and get version one done before kind of moving into where you are now, which is a little bit more, you know, a little bit more specific over, your, what you, what, where we, really improve the experience for these leads that are coming through the telling you things about them to tightened to where you want them to be.
Speaker 3: (04:30)
So, with that said, what the biggest question that I kind of, I come back to, with a lot of people, is, where do we want to actually take them? You know, what do, what do we actually want to do? Ultimately, what's our ultimate goal here? What's the main objective? And I think you need to be really, really clear on what the objective is because it changes the course of what you actually do next. Once people come out the other end of that kind of funnel and that survey where you're asking them those questions. So for some people it may be that you're ultimately trying to drive them to a, a, a consultation. A [inaudible] consultation works very well for consultants you know, or say an agency that like you and I run where you really, you know, you can't sell a digital product like that.
Speaker 3: (05:32)
You know, you can't sell an information product, right off the bat. You need to be able to have a, you know, a consultative, conversation with somebody first, diagnose them further if, if you wish so, you know, there's two forms so that you could have a page, you could have it free but the key thing is, is that you need to know where you want to take them and in some people's cases, if they're selling an information product, you're going to be taking them possibly to a sales page, or you're going to be putting through a sales process then to follow them up to be buying something that's appropriate to what they told you about. So it's all very dependent on where you want to try and take them. And it also varies on what modalities, you're going to use to reach them because in some cases it's not relevant to, you know, access extreme.
Speaker 3: (06:28)
If I show two different scales of this, you know, if I, an agency like you, and I do a quiz like you and I find that there are possibly six outcomes or whatever it may be from my, from my quiz, first of all, for three of those outcomes, I'm going to call them positive outcomes. So a positive outcome for me is somebody that I would regard as being, qualified, or, or could be qualified based on what they've told me. And I'm probably going to have three negative outcomes as well. You know, taking them, I got six in entitled so you've got positive and negative outcomes, ones that you just want to disqualify, actually move away from you. And you probably have already said that to them in your followup that maybe this isn't a good fit for you, but here's some free resources, that type of thing.
Speaker 3: (07:27)
Or you've got the positive outcomes. So you need to then address breaking that down. Now knowing what our angle is, we'll, let's talk about it, talk about it as a, a diagnostic call or a, a, a, as you call it, a map session. Well, I know how much that person's worth to me now that means to me now that I know that, that not everybody on the back of that is going to actually go and shed. You'll a call with me and paying me a refundable $500 amount of money to get on the phone with me I had of course speaking with me, they're just not going to do that so I need to build in, think about my followup process now to how I can get myself continually in front of them. So this comes back to the basics.
Speaker 3: (08:22)
Now I've got their information. What about delivering a [inaudible] stream? I'm going to give you another example, but as, as extreme a shocking all box in the post with a, a USB jumpdrive of the video that the segment that one of the three positive outcomes that the word from the quiz on already pre recorded, already preloaded with a lift letter that goes along with that with a headline that dye was straight into that particular problem or challenge that they discovered as part of the quiz and the call to action on that letter being that you want to get them to a diagnostic call, and, and what you need to do to go and do that. And what goes with that is a testimonial book, which guess what has all of the testimonials that are related to the problem or challenge from that particular segment of the audience that, that as well that for people just like them have had that problem that they're facing that you can help them with. And so, you know, actually it's an extreme, you can really start to dial in to how you do that.
Speaker 2: (09:37)
Well, do you know what I love about that? I love the fact that like, so some of the questions you could ask would be about budget and some of the questions you can ask me like almost like qualify them based on the answers to be like a high quality lead school so to speak. So for me, if they've got audiences that are searching for them, if they've got kind of like a, an ex a brand that's been around for a long time has done very well. If they are, kind of like got different types of audiences in terms of like people that share common interests or remarketing audiences, that are on a launch list already. If they ticking all the boxes there, that could be the sort of thing where I say send out an email like afterwards and say, Hey look, I hope you enjoyed your map session and let me know what your, you'll address it because I've got something very special to send you.
Speaker 2: (10:21)
And it could just be as simple as that. So it looks like you're like looking after them, which you obviously are doing, but you would segment that just a purely like the top 10% or something about people that go through that process. You could highlight that it's your own instead of disqualifying your pro qualifying or whatever that is and then kind of have that email, send them out that package that still is very relevant to them, talks their language and kind of like, yeah, did a short package. I think that would be incredible for really building that kind of like that such good positioning with that audience because you're just taking the top 10% of people that go through the process, knowing that the value is for that type of lead is incredible. You might as well put all your efforts into making sure that you close those leads and deliver an incredible service to those people.
Speaker 3: (11:07)
Yeah, definitely. And, you know, what you could do is knowing that from the logic of the end of that survey is that you could serve up some additional contact fields that you need, like their address and actually before you try and move them towards a diagnostic call, you could actually say, I've got a free report that I'd like to send you which, you know, answers the following questions because you know what they are and that gives you the opportunity, you've asked for the physical address, mailing information for you to send it in the post. So that, that's one very good way of doing that for, for sure. And that of course can get quite granular, but you have the information to act upon it if you wish. And I think, you know, the, the, the, the other extreme of that is that, you may well and, and I've done this on several occasions and actually have a quiz that leads directly to a sales master.
Speaker 3: (12:10)
So I'm selling, I'm selling something online and so I will send them in three different places, with three to three different sales letters with three different video sales letters at the top of them with three different headlines, that allow me then to talk very directly cause it's really the difference between being a sniper rifle and a shotgun. And then I talk, as you know, talk about this a lot, you know, the things that you're able to create when you're selling something online on the back of these types of sessions is a whole different, sequences, email follow up the, the, the follow people up to, different pages for each of those different avatars or, or segments within your list. So you can tailor the, the headline, the sales letter, the subheadline, the opener, the testimonials, the bullet points, and of course the, the close, because you can answer all of the objections in advance, knowing exactly who they are.
Speaker 3: (13:15)
We've done that in lots of different niches and it's worked really well. And the other thing that I would positively endorse people doing as well is, you know, you, you can build this sometimes into the post follow up questions. So the actual quiz. So you can actually do the quiz first and then, what you can do is then actually bolt on a, another level, another level of questions which simply gauge the interest of the person and so you've asked you questions, you can provide an answer to them and then they put their details in where they get a video, they go back to that page and on that page it can then ask them some more, specific questions in regards to the qualification. So, you know, you can say, you know, on a scale of one to 10, how interested are you in this?
Speaker 3: (14:19)
Because now that they've got their solution, now you pre prescribed something to them, you can now start asking questions of them like, so they're moving towards us. So in a different way. Now we can start saying to them, you know, okay, underneath the video you'll see that there's a, a few more questions. If you're looking to find out more about how we can help, just answer those now and then we'll be able to take the next step or whenever it is or I'll see you on the other side, and that then means that you can start to lead score people. If they scored, you know, I'm one to four interested, then it might tailor your followup. You know, you might just do an email and SMS. If it's, you know, five, six or seven, then you might do email as less and phone outbound calls.
Speaker 3: (15:11)
And then if it's a nine or a 10, then you might conditionally serve up that mailing address thing as well to get direct mail and every, so now you're now you're dealing with, you know, you're, you're being clever about the, the, the followup and serving things up conditionally, to really provide a very personalized experience on the back of these, these things here as well. You know, I think the, the, the key is it's very, the, this varies. The information that you use varies very different, different, you know, it changes for different people but I mean, in some cases there's nothing wrong with collecting all of that, you know, real rich information and not yet actually acting upon it. You know, letting it go into your autoresponder system, even serving up, you know, a few different responses, if that's all you think that you can do.
Speaker 3: (16:06)
And then exporting all of that into a spreadsheet and actually looking at everybody's answers and, I actually, Reggie interestingly a long, long time ago when Perry Marshall first released his Google outwards book, the first, first ever edition in that book somewhere he talks about a question that he's asking people on the thank you page after they've opted in, you know, back then you could drive people blatantly to an opt in page from, from, from, from, from ad and not having a compliance issue. And, but even so he would ask people a question on the, on the thank you page, which would be, in relation to, on a scale of one to 10, how difficult was it to find out what you were looking for and then he would also ask, what's your number one challenge facing you right now?
Speaker 3: (17:04)
Now that's not really a quiz, but what he was actually really doing was cause it was like a free form tax box. I can't remember the exact, I think it was three questions in total was what he was actually doing was wanting to just gather that information. So we have the intelligence to then go back to where the traffic source was coming from to adapt the copy, for his ads. So we knew what search queries were coming through and he could adapt it based upon what people are telling him. So we could mine out all of the different things that he needed in different markets that he didn't even know exist in the last he asked the question. So you can really, really make this work for you from a traffic perspective. Be better educated neighbor want to do as well. It's amazing. There's so many different ways of using the answers. So not just having a bespoke followup, but also what are you going to do with the type of lead that comes through if they're really high quality, if they're low quality, how to deal with those people. Should you, how'd you let people down nicely? How do you also, send shock and awe packages to the best people, but also you'll, from that information you can tweak, the whole process. I speak in the language that your best prospects speak and also then, kind of use that information to find a new audience that would, that would fit for that as well, I know that from our stuff, we're going to be taking different types of conversion pixels, and saying, right, if we've hit this particular page, give that kind of like define that conversion at whether it be from Facebook or whether it'd be from AdWords for example.
Speaker 2: (18:43)
And then it's going to just kind of feed back into the ad campaigns that we run because it will tell us more information about those types of conversions. And it will also tell us that, well, we're getting the best conversions from what sort of traffic is doing that. But also, we can then target the people correctly and build custom audiences, lookalike audiences, similar audiences based off the best conversion pixels. And that's the whole process just allows you to start advertising more and more effectively to fill a conversion process that works incredibly well as well. So the whole, segmentation of that audience, prior to almost in and then making sure that they kind of get the right sort of information out to them with a great followup process, but also using that information to guide future advertising. It was just, the whole process becomes like in isolation, some of that can be continually optimized, not just based on the first process of getting people through the door, but also once they've gone through the door, they've, they've taken certain actions based on the qualification process.
Speaker 2: (19:42)
You can kind of like just clean the whole process up and kind of like, just be constantly, continuously optimizing the whole process. And I just think that that in itself, is not the most difficult thing to build out. It might sound complicated, but it really is not compared to other things that people have learned in terms of what, how to make a business work from advertising and from marketing, et cetera. If you just have a simple survey funnel in place, which is very much like the offline world going into a store, like a website, like when you go into a store, going to a website and asking questions of the sales represents a representative and in the same way it's like a survey is kind of doing a very similar thing or becoming the doctor and being the person that answers the questions and then gives a device based on that process.
Speaker 2: (20:30)
It means that you've got all the dates you'll ever need. Plus also probably one of the most powerful advertising and marketing campaigns you could build your business. And so from that perspective, if anyone's listening and thinking, Oh, should I get into survey funnels or not, should I go and build something? I think for God's sake it's definitely worth a test for sure to start with but then like, I think that from everyone trying to say, here's the best way to promote our products, here's what you should be offering. Here's it. People don't necessarily want that so much any longer. They don't want more free information. That's kind of like been done and, and it's kind of like losing its power that used to have now people are looking to get their problem solved. And I just think of so many different scenarios at work.
Speaker 2: (21:12)
So, well even at Christmas for example, if I went onto a website that sells women's gifts for Christmas, my wife for example, and then someone just came up like, you know how you get like these pop up places later say, Hey, let me, let me also let me find your best. Like the best person for your wife, what she into which you buy a bag like this or like this something I can click on the ones I think, does she have a family? Yes or no? Do you go on fancy nights out? Yes or no? Just questions like that would mean that we'd find the perfect bag or at least narrow it down to like, here's five amazing designer bags based on your budget, based on your lifestyle of your wife, based on what she already likes and stuff. Like you can imagine like the sales process, but any business can be done in such an elegant way that really allows the user to have an experience that is just easy.
Speaker 2: (21:59)
And also guides me in the process to say, okay, instead of just browsing this eCommerce store and trying to find it out for yourself, here's a process where within a minute you can find the perfect gift for your wife based on exactly what requirements women have for bags. I'm being very sexist here just saying that women unload bags for Christmas, but you get the idea, and it would be very easy for me to buy anything for myself that I'll be interested in if there was just a survey process and people just ask me the right questions and gave me good advice. And I know that this, this is something that's happened to a friend of mine, who went to a Jaguar store for buying a Jaguar car. They went there and they said, they asked him a load of questions and said, do you know what?
Speaker 2: (22:40)
You're better off buying a BMW is a better car for you based on what you want and for me, he never stops talking about that story. And so Jaguar has got all this amazing free press for the sake of like if you go to Jaguar, that's how you have to call is right for you and not. And if not, they'll go at you to what car would be right for you. But it means you just want to go to Jaguar first now and and if you'd like that sort of bro, I just think all of that is about giving the user the best possible experience starting there. If your brand and trying to build the perfect user experience and this is it. And then the fact that it does do a fantastic job on based on conversion. If you have the right followup sequence which you've talked about here, I just think it's going to be the, the way to, to think about things and it just needs a bit of creativity to have the type of campaign you run, all type of server that you build but it's not the, not the hardest thing to do. It's not kind of like trying to be the best at copywriting, the best at sales process. It's, it's more a case of just saying, Hey, what would you say to someone if they were standing in front of you? And then what information or what kind of advice would you have for them as basically marketing is not, is no, Hey, I've got this amazing thing for you. This product is just incredible. Go and buy it. Let me know a bit more about who you are and I'll tell you what product is going to be right for you out of these seven that we've got sort of thing that's a much better process. Yeah, I think, I, you know, the, so much that we can talk about and you know, the analogy that we, you know, I've spoken about before is people, people, don't know, P people need to go through this process of, you know, self discovery, self selection, and, and as search. The thing that I would, I would suggest, would be considering really those people that take the negative path of knowing that then, you know, that the end of this funnel, they're probably not a good fit if that's what you're trying to do.
Speaker 3: (24:38)
I mean, there are some funnels and there are many, that don't have this negative trap that, you know, they're not a good fit because chances are you've probably got something that would be a good fit for them. You're just trying to find out, you know, broadly speaking, where are they? But what I would say is if you are offering a high ticket thing and that's where you're trying to take people to intentionally like you are, it would be a bit like, okay, so this isn't right for you. Books I've got good news and the good news is I've got this free course or I've got this, you know, I've got this amazing kind of, membership and it's actually, you know, it's, it's 97 pounds. It's really a throwaway. But what that will enable you to do is give you the foundations to hopefully move your business from where it is now, to where you want it to be.
Speaker 3: (25:32)
And let me, we can re rejoin the conversation to data because people feel like you're really serving them then. And it comes back to that prescription to them of what's right for them. And I think the thing is, is that, you know, in itself, it's, it's, it's true, not everybody is a good fit for you. And I know something, I had a call with somebody through one of our discovery calls yesterday who went through the process. I actually do, through our, our, our schedule called funnel. So it's not a, a survey fall. It's the thing that they get to beyond that rarely and we still ask some very specific questions and he went through everything, gave his all his information, hadn't watched any of the videos seemingly, that had got, got him through that and when we jumped on the call and then, you know, maybe there's a problem in our process because it's a free discovery call.
Speaker 3: (26:30)
Not a paid for discovery call. This guy was wholly in adequately, an adequate Lee come prepared for the call, which is one of the big things. He was late the call he didn't have the information to have, you haven't read any of the emails. He hadn't done any of this stuff. It's just not indicative of a very good client for us just by his actions that he taken up into them. Now I'm wondering whether, you know, we would have been able to actually know a little bit more about this guy more broadly speaking up until that point, if we'd have gone through this process. And I think that a lot of people would agree with that, that, you know, you know, the people you want to work with or you know, the products that are a good fit for different segments of people and you know, this really allows you to really discover more than you could ever imagine and do all of the clever stuff that we've spoken about here, to, to get the best results.
Speaker 2: (27:31)
Yes, I think this is really ongoing. Very interesting conversation. And over time I know that we're going to be improving my process and I'm going to be passing it over to you Willy, so that, well you've already guided the process, pretty much in its entirety so far, but I mean in terms of getting further tweaks and getting it like, sort of hand over to you to, to make it even much better I'm looking forward to getting started and we'll come back, I'm sure over this time and time again and talk about how we put these things together and also, kinda some of the more the results because right now a 14% conversion rate from, someone signing up and also sort of going through the discovery, told them my websites and then becoming a, a map session customer, so to speak.
Speaker 2: (28:19)
And not necessarily a client just yet, but spending $500 with us, to, to go through that process. For me, that means that every person that goes through our discovery tool right now is worth $70 to us, which is incredible. And, I know that those numbers will change over time as, as like the, the process becomes, probably of like as we start pushing it with ads, and looking at where we can get more and more broad audiences coming through the process as opposed to just focusing on the very light on the Justin, the best traffic we might want to scan out further and therefore the conversion rates will differ. But, this is, this is going to be like, a really interesting process for us because it means that we'll probably be advising pretty much every single one of our clients to go this route in due course once we've got more data across many different niches and things, but it just seems like this is going to be, like, I mean, I say this is going to be the future. This is right now and this is what's working incredibly well right now. And it's just that creativity behind it, there's just needed and therefore having a conversation with you at some point is the way to go.
Speaker 3: (29:19)
So, yeah, looking forward to that.
Speaker 2: (29:21)
So just to reiterate from the last call as well, because I know that, we talked about in last call, lots of podcasts we, Oli, kind of like, was very kind in a way that said, look, if you're interested in building your own survey funnel of some sort or if we're getting a discovery tool or whatever you want to call it on your website to make sure that you can segment your audience, give a really good user experience, build your brand off the back of that process as well. Then I'm going to all of the Bilson which is two ells.com forward slash consultation as Oliver billson.com forward slash consultation and, and you can schedule a call with you, I believe, Ali and and told you about how to start building these things out, consult with you on it and also get you in the agency, your agency to build it out for them. Most certainly. Thanks Tom. Awesome. All right. Well thank you very much for listening and as always, we love doing these things and if you are listening to this, and it's probably very close to Christmas, I would have thought I'm having Christmas and also, happy new year if you listen to a podcast in between that and yeah, we're looking forward to a big 2017 most certainly. It. Thanks guys.