Speaker 1: (00:00)
You're listening to path to purchase a podcast for passionate and committed business owners and marketers, Oli Billson and Tom Breeze are here to give you the tools and knowledge you need to grow your business and take decisive action. Welcome to the episode.

Speaker 2: (00:14)
Hello everybody, this is Oli Billson and I am with mr Tom breeze. I need like a drum roll and then edit that in. I think we could probably do that. We can try that next time. So meantime, before we just kind of jumped on here to record this, this episode, we were talking about some of the changes in the YouTube advertising platform and, one of the things that, we, we kind of dug into a little bit and we thought, well, we'd better get on, Hey, quick before we, before we exhaust yourself all the information, is, is really some of the changes in mobile, and how that's kind of affected things because we all know, that, you know, we, we're all using our mobile phones a lot and, and obviously if you want to kind of get in front of people, then we need to make sure that we're, we're, we're running ads in where we're running ads, effectively on those platforms to make the most of it. So, why don't we kick off with that time.

Speaker 3: (01:22)
Yeah. Cool. Thank you so yeah, I think that one of the things that's happened with YouTube a lot in the last two years, I'd say really big time is the fact that everyone's starting to move to mobile more and more. And I think we all know that, right? So like, the devices support better viewing options, especially when it comes to video and like with the iPhone, well maybe not with the Samsung, no to whatever it is accused and exploding, but at least most owners don't blow up. But the devices themselves are really good. They kind of display really high quality video these days and the screens are big enough to actually watch a video and make it look really good. So, when I'm talking about mobile, I'm really talking about mobile phones and not tablets just yet. I will talk about tablets in a minute.

Speaker 3: (02:07)
But then, I think internet speeds have improved, over the last few years, especially when it comes to more, mobile connections as well. So not like in the home and connected to wifi, but more catered like your three G four G networks and E networks and stuff like that, are getting better all the time. And so it's just become this natural thing where we are starting to use our mobile a lot more. I mean, I know that anytime I'm even working on my desktop, I'll have my phone very close to me and there's certain types of searches I'll use my mobile I'll go to my mobile for some reason. I don't know why all the time, but like I find sometimes instead of open up a new browser to go and search for something, I know my phone will be quicker sometimes I think.

Speaker 3: (02:47)
And also I don't like to necessarily have two things going on at once. I'll separate it out by device but then obviously once you've finished working on your desktop any longer when you're watching TV in the evening or if you're in bed or anything, I normally will go on, on my phone. One of the last things I do before I go to bed, because I just check on maybe like Instagram or Facebook or kind of like my email or whatever it might be just to get ready for the next day. Sometimes as well. I put in a good habits at the end, but that's just me. I'm sure everyone else does a similar thing and so there's always been this kind of like this kind of like, taught from YouTube the fact that everything is going mobile and that's very true and we've seen it more and more.

Speaker 3: (03:28)
But when actually comes to advertising on mobile, it's never been easy on the app was platform to be like, okay, with video I want to show up here at this time on just mobile devices. And it's been difficult to separate that out. And we used to have it to do it through what we call is bid modifying, where you'd say, right, I want to decrease the amount of views I get from mobile by 100%. And that would be the way where you'd say, right now we're only going to advertise to desktops and tablets that was the way we used to have to do it. And all the other way around you if it was a bit more complicated, if you want to advertise just a mobile, it wasn't, it wasn't possible to just advertise to mobile. But mobile, what you do is you reduce your cost per view that you're willing to pay and then increase the bid, modify on a mobile by 300%.

Speaker 3: (04:18)
And that's why you shouldn't get much exposure on desktops or tablets. And so we should get more exposure on mobiles but I don't know why ad-words doesn't just allow you to advertise in just one platform, the other, but now, which is really good news, over the last month, it must've been less than that. Maybe, AdWords now just do it so you can save, right? Just tick the box, whatever you want, whether it be desktop, tablet or mobile. And then you can go buy all the different types of mobile devices and then network type as well. So they'll connect to wifi or not. You can do all that good stuff as well but it, but it means that you can just literally choose whether you advertise to mobile or tablet or computer or your computer and that means basically it just gives that kind of much more clarity to the actual campaign itself.

Speaker 3: (05:05)
You can segment your campaigns by device and also you can stop advertising to tablets. Cause in the past what would have to happen is that they would clump together the desktops and tablets and tablets would perform so much worse when it came to, video ads than desktop typically. And also it's a very different moment in time for somebody if someone's on a tablet compared to when someone's on their desktop or their laptop. It's a very different experience I believe anyway. Like if I know that I'm in a very different frame of mind from my tablet versus if I'm on my actual computer, I'm more likely to make a better buying decision from my computer than I am a tablet. Okay. If I was to buy a flight to the U S for example, I probably wouldn't feel completely comfortable doing that on a mobile device I have done on a mobile device before, but I'd probably be more comfortable going to a desktop to do that or buying a significant purchase.

Speaker 3: (05:54)
I'll probably do it from a desktop than I would do my tablet on now you can separate them all out. It does make things a lot, lot easier. And it also means you can get away and get rid of a lot of wastage from your campaigns as well. So it'd be running video ads more recently on ad words and you've not yet kind of segmented those campaigns out. You can literally go in now, check on your performance of your tablets and desktop and then turn off the tablets if you wish to or if you only want to turn off the desktop if you want to as well but it means you can have a much better experience with, with your viewers as well. So if we take the system, something like, well a lot of our clients go straight to sale or very early sale.

Speaker 3: (06:38)
And when that's the case, you're always gonna tend to find, you get a better conversion rate from a desktop than you would do a tablet or a mobile. That tends to be a rule of thumb. So that means you can kind of choose how you advertise as a result of that. But then we have a lot of lead generation campaigns where someone might do like a cross plot, cross device conversion later on. So they might sign up on a mobile, get the information and join a webinar for example, on a, on a mobile. But then when they actually come to attend that webinar, they'll attend on a desktop and that's a really nice, kind of like things to have because it means that you know that you've, you can connect with people on a mobile device and then carry on that relationship on, on a desktop and that's really good as well.

Speaker 3: (07:20)
So some of our clients will do like training products. One of our clients in particular is doing really well on tablet and that's because he's in the guitar tuition niche. And so you can imagine con you, if you're learning to it's are getting on a tablet is likely to be a much better experience for you than to be sitting in front of your computer or your tablet there. You can probably put it on a stand, probably play. And then if an ad comes up as you're watching a YouTube video to learn how to do something and the ads really good, you're going to likely click that, get back to the website and sign up for his lessons as opposed to YouTube lessons because his lessons are so much better. And so, no, just stop me. That why would be, and I'm sure some people who, who, who perhaps is not so intimately familiar with the platform may not know quite how convoluted it used to be to be able to get to where we are now and to be able to break this down by devices you can, but, but why wouldn't we just create an ad? Why would serve on all of those platforms? Why would we bother and go to the hassle of breaking it down? Even though we may know that our audience may consume that content that's a maybe on a Mo, on a tablet, why would we spend the time on creating ads specifically for that platform rather than just doing one that, with one?

Speaker 3: (08:44)
Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah. So, so many reasons, but really it's down to performance and getting the very best out of the campaigns you can. So, let, one of the reasons is, is because depending on the funnel that you've got or whatever you're promoting, you'll likely to get very different results from a different device. So if it's straight to a sale, for example, you're probably going to see much better conversion rates from desktop than mobile and if that's the case, you can, once you know those numbers, say for example, let's say for example, you had to get in a sale for less than a hundred dollars in order to break even, for example. And a desktop did it for $10. So you've got amazing ROI and a mobile did it for $50 and you still doubled your money. So both work and you both already happy with both those campaigns because one is working like five times better than the other.

Speaker 3: (09:37)
You want to separate them out those two different campaigns because then you can be like, right, let's spend money everywhere we can with the desktop ads because we want to see if we can maximize our impression, share, maximize everywhere we can be seen because we've got so much profit to play with and therefore we can scale really easily. If you've got a mobile device, you might be like, okay, well look, we still got 50% it's still working well, but we can't easily up the cost per view for example, in order to get more impression share because as soon as you start tweaking with that a little bit too much, say for example, you went from 2 cents to a per view to 4 cents per view and the conversion rate didn't change. All of a sudden you're looking at a roundabout breakeven point at that point just for 2 cents change there because mobile will tend to be cheaper than desktop views as well.

Speaker 3: (10:27)
So it's just different numbers and it's a, it's a different kettle of fish and really when it comes to how to advertise that and you've got to bear in mind like great music, got profit margins, you've got impression share and also you've got difference of where those ads will show and also kind of time of day that you might want to pay attention to as well and also the, the ads themselves. So, if you had like four K experience on a desktop, you might be able to get away with that and people watch it and have no problem but with the mobile device you might really pay attention to the fact that cause it's shot so well. Let's say for example, you're selling a TV and you want it, you want the ads only plan HD and you wanted it to be really, really good quality and you just, without the HD factor of that ad, it wouldn't have the same impact.

Speaker 3: (11:12)
Then you might say, well because it just can't be viewed on a mobile and the same screen in the same experience can't be had it. You're not getting as good at your brand impact in front of people as well. So there's all these different considerations that need to be taken into account. And from a performance standpoint I would say your best of separates separates them out and then dealing with them like they're different ad campaigns because they will perform a completely different ways and it was optimize and scale them. You need to look at it from a different standpoint each time so let's say for example, a case study that we can talk about, I won't necessarily mention the client, but we've seen a lot is when client has a rather large list and it's a good quality list, we can upload it through something called Google match and then AdWords or build audiences off the back of that.

Speaker 3: (12:02)
The similar audiences, very similar to Facebook's lookalike audience. And so what you can do is to say, right, that the audience is being built that similar audience, let's run mobile ads to it and also desktop that's do it pretty much exactly the same audience but it will perform in very different ways, and that's where you can think, right? Well both, we've got a lot of scale to them. Both are could convert really well, but because it's just a different device, it will just work in a different way and therefore you might want to pay less for a view. And it's easier when it's when it's segmented out like that and if you can go for desktop, tablet and mobile as three different campaigns, it means you just got a lot more flexibility and a lot more and the, and the data interpretation of that is easier to read, kind of like bracket altogether. You're going to be sitting there looking, trying to work all out some times. And so it's difficult. So, yeah, so that, that's why we break it all out and then you're going to get better performance as a result.

Speaker 2: (12:58)
Yeah. So what, what I find interesting about this and, and, and a mistake a lot of people make, regardless of actually, if you're running YouTube advertising like we're talking about specifically for certain platforms, or if you're running, Google normal Google AdWords, search stuff, or even if you're doing Facebook, it applies to all is that I say so many at mainly in the lead generation side. And also if you're sending people directly to a sale, of sites or pages that just simply are just not optimize while enough for the mobile. And, regardless of how good the ad is, regardless of how good the offer is, ultimately at the point where there's a conversion be a lead or you're trying to ask for the sale, where of you taking them to in order to, to, to obviously make that happen.

Speaker 2: (14:00)
You know, so many times people don't go to the right effort to, to make sure their pages are well, well optimized. And actually the truth is is that people will be saying or thinking to themselves possibly in their lessons as well, you know, I've got lead pages or I've got click funnels, I've got stuff that is supposed to help me, in terms of optimizing my pages for, for, for, for mobile. But the sad fact is unfortunately, lead pages is the way that the platform is built, is a little bit different, in that regard but where people start to do customization, beyond that in terms of things like click funnels and even if they are using the page builder with lead pages or they're using something else like Insta page or whatever is, is that they, that there is, they build the pages often for an all devices model.

Speaker 2: (14:57)
And actually they just allow the system itself to determine and to resize accordingly based on the resolution of its mobile or not the firm. However somebody is coming into it. And obviously that's the thing is that, if you, if you're not going to say at the time to create the pages specifically for those platforms, then unfortunately you're gonna miss out a lot, a lot on conversions because the user experience just isn't going to be that to maximize the opportunity. So I've seen so many things from even size of buttons, size of text, people trying to get videos to be clicked and played, that they just really don't give it a thought I mean in actual fact, there needs to be a completely different experience that you need to consider adding.

Speaker 3: (15:47)
It's really interesting because I know that we've, we've got a lot of clients, some of the pages will be optimized, some of them won't be and I, when I say optimize, I mean like, like there's done a lot of conversion rate optimization on that page and they've seen it from a mobile perspective, not like a dynamic version of a desktop page in terms of, so say for example, your position where you've got a website, it's converting really well, you've done a lot of optimization to it and then you take right on a ton of my mobile advertising now, and you started secret results, but you know, your landing page of your website or your whole website could just be massively improved what, what would your suggestion be? What would your thing like where, here's where to get started. Maybe this is a new podcast episode, kind of like referring to here, but like, what would you consider like, right, here's a few things you want to think about when it comes to the mobile experience. When it comes off an ad, for example, like the first page that you're looking for an option, let's say.

Speaker 2: (16:44)
Yeah, sure. Well, I think, I think the key is to, to actually walk through the experience yourself with what you've already got. So if you've already got a page that use, as a desktop page right now, then, see how that page first of all performs on mobile. That's the first place to start. You've already got some working with, it's automatically gonna hopefully it's gonna create a mobile version of that page, which you can see and you can immediately spot some of those errors. So, you know, whereby if you're on the phone, maybe the, the button or the call to action where you want people to click to then have an opt in box is beneath the fold. So, the call to action really isn't high enough. They'd have to actually scroll, so to, to actually get to the point where they can actually opt in so, you know, making sure the call to action is, is always above the fold, rarely.

Speaker 2: (17:45)
And, and anything else that's congruent with selling the opt in. Rarely you want to be visible in player without any kind of distractions. So, you know, things like button size of wow as well as a, as a consideration. So sometimes we change the copy on the button because on desktop, that length of text of the on the button is great for, for desktop, but for mobile it doesn't work because it just doesn't work. Other things, people that use kind of parallax or any kind of video background isn't going to work on a mobile, then you know that they're going to, it's going to play, it's going to give you like an image version of that, that video background or whatever she meant a swapped out so that the background plays second fiddle to the whole point of them getting to the page and if you've got, and, and also, you know, and, and there are, you know, surprisingly, especially if you get into like a, a platform like click funnels for example, if you look at a page that we build, in click funnels, it looks completely different to how it does on mobile.

Speaker 2: (19:05)
The whole thing is very different. The size of things are different, the objects different, the size of the buttons are different. And, it can look like we've jus plicated the whole page at each step in the builder but we've built it that way specifically for mobile. And the easiest thing to do if you're on a desktop is actually just resize the window to just see what it looks like when it's all bunched up together to be them with. And that gives you some ideas for, you know, what, what you're kind of dealing with, especially if you've got some fancy pages, of how it's, how it's put together. I also think so. So for me, something that says your question, making sure that the, the, the call to action is above the fold. Things are, that, that need to be that primarily to sell the opt in of there is elements that you can easily see, and that you walk. So, you also making sure that you've adapted any elements to, to the size and the dimensions that they need today in order for it to be a good user experience. So do you think about, two [inaudible] one thing is that I have used optimize press quite a lot in the past and I love the fact that they've got button, which is just a mobile redirect button. So it's like if someone comes to this landing page, and they're on a mobile Wilson's with different page, and then you can optimize that particular page purely for a mobile experience that's question or one a. Is that a good idea to do that and question one B especially, you do some remarketing of that as well, which would be interesting but then one B is, which I can't remember actually. So he wants it. [inaudible] is the way, the way that from, from my knowledge of how that works is that it's based on detach, it detects that it's mobile and then obviously it could read our based on based on that so I don't really see that to be a problem as long as it doesn't disrupt the user experience. In fact, pretty much my, my default answer to most optimization questions are, wow, the thing, because you can genuinely see what the experience is, the, if the user experience seems to be disjointed and if it even seems to not have the fluidity, that you would like to see. It's generally going disrupt conversions and you know, some pages on desktop can look really nice, but ultimately when they come to mobile just don't work at all and people don't actually take the time to make sure that they're well optimized and all these, I literally see that.

Speaker 2: (21:53)
So I can, for me, it's an absolute joke. I literally click, click on an ad from Facebook or something or on YouTube, even OBS did something the other day with a very well known, usually advertiser that you're not running their account, but I know who they are. And then they tell me to click from a phase. And guess what the, the headline part that was on the second line. So, right. Okay. So like immediately I'm like, that doesn't look very good. It does not, doesn't look very professional. In fact, it's just interrupted the user experience the colors just didn't really work the way that I wanted them to it just didn't seem to just seem to work that well for me either in terms of how visible it was and you know, it's the little things like we don't all have the brightness on our display turned all the way up. Right. So, you know, you need to think about those things of, of how, how that perceived, immediately really. And, it's pretty interesting. And the part B was like, do you recommend creating a, there's two parts. This question, do you recommend creating a mobile specific page that you send traffic to from mobile devices? So you've got a desktop version of the page on a mobile version of the page and then the, the, the offshoot that would be like, have you ever done any app promotion? So go straight to an app and get opt-ins on an app, for example. I don't know how that would work, in fact that would be interesting to know cause I know that apps are starting to get really exciting and really popular and things and I know that there's a lot of promotion you can do around apps as well on ad words, but I just haven't really dug into it just yet, but I'm interested in if you've got information on that.

Speaker 2: (23:46)
Yeah. So, for me, I think that, well, the app thing I'll just address firstly. So yeah. And that's really exciting. I think we should actually hold that back probably for another episode. So I think there's a lot to talk about. Whereabouts concern as far as king of the, the actual on page optimization for both, do you do it as one page or do you create two pages? Is Israeli, Israeli this, for me in the majority of cases we create one page, one URL, the is, has, when it detects for mobile, the version that it serves up in its mobile form has been optimized and essentially it can look like a completely different version of the page if you wish it to. So we, we predominantly, if we're not coding a page from scratch, then we will probably use a page builder like click funnels, and that will provide us the opportunity to show, create a page where it says all devices, which is what it says in ClickFunnels for each element.

Speaker 2: (24:57)
So sometimes we'll remove almost half the page, you know, mobile or we'll remove, if, for example, there's an image, a big image, when that image goes onto mobile, it can be really, really small when it gets compressed, even though it was a really big image when it was on desktop. So that just doesn't work. If there's detail on the image. So we will actually want to remove that and I will only show that element if it's on desktop, not on mobile. So you can conditionally serve that just by selecting what it's viewed on and then it will show the page accordingly and we that that worked. Wow especially, especially when most people are kind of, you know, when you want to get going with these things, you don't want those sorts of things to hold you back. And that's the reason why that platform works so well.

Speaker 2: (25:52)
Because as long as you're aware of the fact that you should develop a mobile version of it and it's not until you've had a bad experience with it that you can't go, Oh yeah, that's why the option is that it makes a whole lot of sense. So, and it's the same thing. You know, same thing if you're driving people to blogs, if you've got a blog, you know, what you really looking for is kind of lateral scroll rate that they're actually scrolling down the page and consuming content. If your blog isn't really set up to, to, to create that kind of experience, which really allows people to easily read across the page and down as they go you know, again, that's not really gonna know it, you know, lend itself particularly well to a good mobile experience either. So I think really all of these things we talked about, you know, from your perspective in terms of running ads, and why you would run different ads to and break them up. Essentially it's different platforms and ultimately why you take them to, it's all very, very relevant. Rarely entirely.

Speaker 3: (26:56)
It's, it's really, I think it's really, really powerful right now in terms of like the options on advertising for Facebook. They've been there for quite some time without words. It just turned on. But I think a lot of people have realized they need like that mobile responsive website, but it's more than just that it's a mobile optimized website, right? So it's like saying make that experience completely perfect from ad creation because it will be a different experience for some on a mobile versus someone on a, on a desktop. And sending that traffic to a certain page. So say for example you are promoting something which is an immediate sale, maybe test out an idea of not going through an immediate sale, maybe test an idea of like sending them to a content rich page to begin with them, remarket them for instance, if you're not getting a very good conversion rate on that sale cause is that the fact that you're still getting human beings going to a particular page or they're interested in something, it's just device they're on might not be perfect and so a clever remarketing strategy could get them back on a mobile.

Speaker 3: (27:53)
I'm not going to that kind of desktop a scenario and also just test the goddamn thing works because we've done things where we've got funnels where you've got a low end offer like postage and packaging offer, then you're trying to drive value work with book sales. But the upside was Dave work on mobile, the OneClickUpsell doesn't work and it's just the technology that hasn't been tested. And unless you're prepared to test and test the upsell and the down sale and made sure that it's carrying everything through, you've got to kind of a bit of a problem really. So making sure that that fits together. And also to be honest, commonly, and I know like there's a lot of people like Sam car and people like that that I've done a lot of testing on this. It's like, well, I'd like order forms the point where people actually put their information in, if they're on desktop, if they're on mobile or tablets, that experience needs to be bloody good because if it isn't, they may lose the opportunity of, of, of, of getting that sale and knowing, as you said, we said right at the beginning just how much traffic there is mobile to not take the time to have the right technology in place to make sure it's optimized.

Speaker 2: (29:04)
You're going to miss out on a whole load of conversions. So supremely do that. Oh, like great chat. As always we should probably talk about some of these, that there's any offshoots of this conversation because I don't know these areas here but yeah, fascinating. Loved it. [inaudible] I will see you in the next episode. See you ready?

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