Speaker 1: (00:00)
You're listening to path to purchase a podcast for passionate and committed business owners and marketers, Oli Billson and Tom Breeze are here to give you the tools and knowledge you need to grow your business and take decisive action. Welcome to the episode.

Speaker 2: (00:15)
Hey, how you doing? This is Oli Billson and I am with Mr Tom Breeze. How are you doing? Really good. I'm good. I always like to enter these episodes in with a Mister and then okay, so always the same. Yeah, it's gonna. It's not gonna change it. You don't actually just changed my name and then we'll have a really weird intro, but, yeah, but I woke up probably the most amount of waffle we've ever started a podcast with, but never going to get your listeners notice. I'm like, yeah. So, we got done recording, the previous, podcast and I was, I was listening to it back and one of the things we talked about was a question that I had for you, which was really about the different options that are available to people with YouTube right now.

Speaker 2: (01:09)
And, and how they can best leverage those options because I personally, you know, there's a lot of talk about Facebook and people kind of, you know, certainly those that have dialed in if certainly right in that profiting right now and they've been crafting for some time what the options are with Facebook. But when it comes to YouTube, there just seems to be, you know, some people are getting a bit confused and not really sure about it. Maybe they're not really stepping into the platform, they're not really sure how to use it and not really sure what options are open to them and I'd like you to demystify it for us so we can talk a little bit about those options, from a traffic standpoint and some examples of why we might take people in, how we might use it, through our marketing. Yeah. Cool. I think, I think that a lot of things that happened recently as well. So, I know that I'm always having conversations with people who are kind of running agencies, running traffic for clients on the Google display network. Or, sometimes on YouTube as well. And we're always looking and finding these new areas that YouTube always opening up. And I think that Facebook have had this big wave activity of all this new type of ad creation that you can do. You can use YouTube done a bit of it a lot. Like when I say YouTube, I actually mean really caught of ad words so, so YouTube is like up to its game. Google's up just game more recently, but the targeting options that are available to everybody, I've been there for quite some time. It's just there's not so much hype around it. I think that the interface of using Facebook is easier for most people.

Speaker 3: (02:50)
A lot of people are talking about it, lots of people getting some amazing results. And it is an amazing platform, right? I'm not gonna deny that, but it's not as big as Google and you start using a display network, which is kind of, it's where all these websites are generating money themselves, like blogs and reviews. You started generating money themselves by having a really good content and then showing ads, which are typically Paul, lots of the Google display network so it means that you can, as an advertiser you can have your ads on so many different websites because Google ads are allowed to show on those websites. So it means you'll reach can be vast and you can, it's like really endless amounts of traffic that you can generate and it's a lot of cases then of like what the targeting options and how can we get in front of our audience in the right way.

Speaker 3: (03:39)
Because I think that Facebook's are easier once a master, it means that it will have a, like a half life in terms of like how long you can advertise on that platform cost effectively. It will kind of be quite quick I think because, whilst they keep increasing lots and lots of different ways of creating ads, there doesn't seem to be quite so much in terms of like, well, once you're on Facebook, it's got the newsfeed, it's got the right hand side. But it's kind of, a lot of the advertising goes on inside of Facebook and right now it's a very, very popular platform, which is great. So this has got Instagram and it's got that, preferred network as well. So that's growing, which is great, but it cause it is an easier platform. Lots of people are playing in that marketplace and the chances are it's going to get saturated.

Speaker 3: (04:24)
So learning to diversify and kind of like, learning how to advertise in different spaces is always going to be really, really useful to do that. And hopefully I can, if no one, if people are listening and they're not yet advertising on YouTube, all the display network, hopefully this will give people an idea of what's available to them when it comes to that time when they're like, do you know what? I'm ready to go and do it now there's a lot out there that can be just amazing and it gives you that opportunity when you do hit it right. It's one of those places where you can scale at a ridiculous rates like with, with Facebook, a lot of people start scaling and they'll see things like ad fatigue where their results just don't hold up, over a period of time or they just can't get in front of that audience because you're getting in front of people who are interested and not necessarily ready to buy.

Speaker 3: (05:11)
That's a difficult audience to convert and you need to be really good with your marketing. Whereas with YouTube and Google, sometimes people don't need a hell of a lot of convincing and it was a buy. Like if you're a locksmith for example, you're going to do so much better on Google and YouTube, then you are going to do on Facebook because there aren't that many people who are really interested and passionate about locksmiths. It doesn't really happen quite so much whereas people go to Google because they're like, I need a locksmith like now because I've just locked myself out, or I need to change the locks because my boyfriend or girlfriend is going crazy and I don't want, you know what I mean? There's so many scenarios like that, but there's so many different businesses that would do so much better on someone like YouTube and Google because people are searching for that topic. And it's a game to win when it's just pure search. But then the real masters will work out how to kind of get a good Google display network working really effectively, because that really is like an endless supply of cost-effective customers. And, so that's hopefully what I can demystify for you a little bit more detail.

Speaker 2: (06:15)
Well, I've actually got a really painful story about, the Google display network actually, which I'll share with you I think everyone has, I think it's kind of like, it's a difficult one to master, but master. So, we have been running Google AdWords campaigns for [inaudible] since 2002, so we are going for a long time in the, in, in that in that fall, in that media and advertising and the reason why I think this is such a valuable episode for people listening is because hopefully what we'll do is talk about those different options that are available to you, where they're applicable and how you're going to use them, different points. And for me, how I wasted so much money I think it was actually back in 2003, was there just wasn't a lot of education around, how best to use, Google, I mean it was to all intents and purposes to me, we'd be willing to, I thought we were running effectively.

Speaker 2: (07:26)
It was profitability was very cheap back then and we were running the search network for, you know, intentional search queries and our Google rap and I was managing our advertising at the time, just sort of said, Hey, you guys should really try the display network and I was like, Oh, that sounds like a good idea. I mean, we're absolutely crushing it with everything we could do. And we were in a market such a niche whack, we could only advertise. There was pretty much all the impressions that we had. We were number one and we just, we couldn't spend enough money like our boot camp, we'll share of the impressions. Right. So you were the ones at the top, you were kind of like, yeah, you're doing your job.

Speaker 2: (08:13)
Yeah. There was no way or else that I could go, and no spending as much money as I could possibly spend. I couldn't spend any more. And frankly it wasn't a lot of money the aid was that niche for sure. And so the, the Google rep had said, Hey, well, you know, we should, you should expand this and he suggested that Google display network so quickly, we, you know, made some banners and kind of got out there on the display network and it was very, very interesting. What I mean by that is I didn't mess this out. Really have the know how that I have now. Unfortunately, you know, one of my best friends, Tom, you are the man when it comes to this stuff. I didn't have a Tom back to them and may me, myself and I, and you know, foolishly I wasn't really thinking about what we spoke about before.

Speaker 2: (09:14)
Are really those moments that people have different stages of that decision making process. I did, I wasn't really thinking about that. I was coming asset from a very kind of search led query kind of place. I wasn't thinking about anything else is there anything I should have been thinking about it that more like Facebook now where people that along way out in the decision making process, you're really targeting kind of interests and I didn't get that. So for probably about a year, no joke, I just spent I can't say it on, on the display network and it just didn't work because that message would have never worked because I was just so used to pounding the same message out through the, through the search network and it just didn't work. So that's my last one was story unlike to tell you like it was a lot of money. Like if I said the number now, it might not seem as much, but the way I calculated it back then was if you knew how cheap I was getting leads for, it's all relevant. So, it just didn't work.

Speaker 3: (10:29)
If you compare somewhere like search on Google and YouTube to the display network, when you're targeting by different V variety of different options, it's like you're dealing with a pond versus the ocean. It's kind of like in the pond. It's like easy pickings. It's kind of like right. You're, you're there in front of people when they want you. Great. That's, it couldn't be better there is a bit of that on the Google display network as well but to really crack a big time, you're looking at kind of like getting people based on they could be interested in what you've got and if your message is really good and clear and your funnel's good when I say funnel, it could be like your, it's just really more of an experience and how your treating that traffic that does come through. If you, if you've got that all dialed in, then you're going to be much better set to get their best results.

Speaker 3: (11:17)
But because it is such a big wide space, you've gotta be a little bit careful about exactly how you talk it and somewhere like YouTube ad campaigns that we run will be run in a very different way to a display network campaign because you're just dealing with a bigger beast. You're dealing with so much more traffic and so you need to segment very quickly, very early on and have a message that connects with that very well, and the, and there's no real, there's no real such thing as a shortcut. So many times we get kind of a good result with a client and then, Oh my God, can we spend five times that much in that area? Like not yet. No. I've got to let it rest and be as it is for five days. Then I cannot put a little bit.

Speaker 3: (12:03)
If you try and go too quick, you're working with the algorithm. Google do their best to help you as you grow but if you push it too quick and the algorithm just tries to find you more traffic already quickly and it ends up going for the crappy crap traffic to try and fulfill your budget, that you want it to fail, so you, you gotta grow it slowly but when I say slowly, it's kind of like, it's like that compounding interest type of idea. So it's like you increase it by 20% every week for example, very soon within like a few, a couple of months, you're, you're dealing with such huge volume of traffic is still converting really well. It's great. Just you have to have that level of patience to be like, it's going to start small grow at and there's no such thing as a short.

Speaker 3: (12:42)
How would the display network for sure. You come on just kind of like say, wow, I'm getting ready givers out here. And it's saying it can spend $1,000 a day and you're like, just wait. Just, just slowly build. Otherwise it would just bite you in the ass and it has a bite me in the ass. Many times they'll get me wrong, but I kinda come back and I learn from, and I think I learned from my mistakes, but I'm, it's always, I tend to think, Oh, I'll just got out a bit more spend there. But you've gotta be gotta be really careful with it.

Speaker 2: (13:06)
Yeah. I think what's interesting, we had a conversation, not so long ago actually, and, and we still have a lot of success with search with Google it's one of our main, lead sources that way funnily enough, actually, we, yes, although we lead gen effectively and affordably through the search, a Google search that work we actually convert with remarketing. So we actually convert with Facebook remarketing, but we lead generate, we do or, and we move people through the funnel very effectively with remarketing on Facebook and basically in changing the platform round, for, for, for further conversions. But, one of the conversations we have and just to open people's minds up to what we're going to talk about when we hit these, these three different options that are available to us with YouTube specifically is, is that sometimes you need somebody who is outside of your business to give you some perspective on some of this stuff.

Speaker 2: (14:17)
Because probably like me and some people listening to this may well be doing well on Facebook, they may well be getting some traction and action through do and it's not that people are close to the idea of new things, but sometimes you just need some perspective on what the, you know, the, the, the real opportunity is, and I know that you even be some, been surprised by some of the clients that you've worked with, how effective YouTube can really be, even though you fully believe that you endorse it and you, you are probably the world's best person, renowned person for YouTube. Actually, the truth is, is that even now when we speak, it's like, Hey, because some of the changes as well help you to get some of those results and you can act on them so quickly. You're at the cutting edge of that. Even now you're like, yeah, you know, we spoke about this. The client wasn't, you know, didn't really think of that. Like, haven't really thought about doing this before. I may, you know, they got you in and you took them through these three different kinds of options we're going to talk through and they'd have fantastic results. So, you know what I'd say is, if you've never thought about advertising on YouTube before, just a play close attention.

Speaker 3: (15:38)
It's very kind of you to say that. I think that one of the things we, we work with some big names and it's really interesting. Sometimes I say to them, okay, so here's what we're gonna be focusing on over the next couple of days. We're gonna start building out campaigns that do this and we're going to go for something like, we'll talk about emanate like a customer affinity audience. And they're like, what's the customer affinity audience? Oh well basically what we do is this, this. And they're like, Oh my God, you can do that. I'm like, yeah, right. Okay. How do we, how do we maximize that as best as possible? And it's just people don't know what's available to them. And everyone, well everyone who's in the advertising game knows a lot about Facebook cause you've got kind of like, your interest targeting, demographic targeting, location targeting, and then you've got your lists and you get your remarketing and of and look alike audiences and things.

Speaker 3: (16:23)
And so you've got kind of a, and it's a great platform to be on because it's got such a lot of engagement, but people aren't in that search mode with YouTube and the Google display network. You've got all of that as well and, and more but people don't realize it. So hopefully we can go into some of this stuff, and talk about the options, and talk about how to use those options as well and where we see best results based on what clients we're working with now the obvious ones to begin with, like the standard box standard, this is what you can do it comes down to demographics. So, ages are broken into different categories it's like 18 to 24, 25 to 36 or 34, 35, 50, I think. I can't remember exactly what all the categories, but you've got kind of like five or six categories based on age brackets.

Speaker 3: (17:09)
So you can't define it quite as well as Facebook where they'll say specifically what age people are at but it just brackets in together and normally that's good enough to go with I really advertised 18 to 24 year olds just because you tend to find it not quite so affluent if they're going to buy a product and likewise with that, with a much older category, at 65 and over, not all that's that old, don't get me wrong, but like, those people don't tend to be quite so savvy with online purchases, which most of my clients tend to be doing as well or in the game for marketing typically so, that's just a kind of a bit of a feel for age groups you obviously got male and female, and then you've also got, unknown as well, which is where they just don't know based on that user profile whether they're male or female.

Speaker 3: (17:59)
Then you've got parental status whether they're a parent or not. And then you got your location targeting as well, which means basically you can go down to a zip code or a postcode that sort of targeting or you can go as wide as the whole world and you can select different pockets. You can eliminate or exclude certain States or certain towns or postcode or zip codes. It can be really, really, really specific with all of this I would say the more more and permutations you put into the algorithm of Google, like the more targeting options you're putting in, then you tend to find it doesn't perform quite so well for you. Cause it's just being, it's being restricted too much and you can, dealing with software and software can be a bit buggy sometimes. So trying to really sad just wants to advertise to these three different locations in different parts of the world and just going to be very specific with your targeting.

Speaker 3: (18:51)
You might just not get any traffic whatsoever. You might just be a bit too far together that's it. Good to keep a consideration of that. And I wouldn't necessarily use location targeting too much and then apart from the really obvious ones so to speak, so like if it's a country, great, makes it easy. If it's a certain city, great, that makes it easy. But I wouldn't go into like this state and this state and this state. I think I'd go for the hold of kind of like I'm doing a slightly different way where you're kind of like maybe break it into three different campaigns. But I'd, I'd try and not challenge the algorithm too much on that some of they brought out more recently and this kind of went under the radar completely, but you can advertise in the U S by, household income as HHI household income.

Speaker 3: (19:38)
And you can do it based on, the top 10%. Next 20%, 30%, 40%, 50%, and then everybody, so that lower 50%, you might say, well let's turn off that because we don't advertise to people that have a lower household income because they might not be able to afford our products, for example. So you can segment by household income as well and there's, yeah, so that kind of like wraps up a little bit about demographics. So you've got age, gender, location and household income, which is what a useful one to know in terms of other types of targeting, you've got, well let's start with kind of start with, search to begin with, which is like cold traffic. People that don't know you, you're going to want to use two types of targeting for cold traffic, and that's always going to be keyword driven.

Speaker 3: (20:29)
So based on people's searches, so what they're typing in to Google or YouTube, based on what they're typing in, you might want to get in front of them with different ads now on YouTube, if you do that by keywords, you wanna get in front of people. There's two types of ads. You've got the discovery ads, which are the ones that will come up at the top of the search results page and sort of no me too. At the top of the search results page, you can be there and also you can be on the right hand side when someone is watching a video already, you can be there on the right hand side as well based on keywords. But what's important to note is that if you are appearing at the top of the search results and you've decided to advertise for a particular keyword, your showing up because of the keyword that the user typed in.

Speaker 3: (21:16)
If you're designed to come up on the right hand side of a video that like have a video, they're already watching your coming up based on the keyword that the video has and that's decided by the person that created the video in the first place. So they put a tag in there that is, let's say, how to bake a cake, for example. And your video is about how to bake a cake. And there's a, there's a good match then great if that video is about how to bake a cake. But let's say for example, that video is not about how to bake a cake, but instead, how to grow your own vegetables and you've got an ad showing that how to bake your own cake, you'll probably find that wouldn't be such a good connection there. And so really the person that creates the video in the first place, you're at their whim based on what he was, they decided their video is about, so that you tend to find to get much less relevancy there.

Speaker 3: (22:05)
But sometimes it's such good quality, not quality traffic, but such cheap traffic. Sometimes you'd be like, well, it doesn't really bother me. I might have to pay a little bit more, but it still turns into and converts into customers cost-effectively. So that's sometimes worth considering on Google, of course you've got the Google, search results page, which is like, I think everyone's familiar with that. So they type in a keyword. It's people who don't come, for example. And then at the top of the search results on the right hand side at Brian's side as well, sorry you're going to have, you can have your ad that typically a text ad but you can't have other types of ads there as well we'd like to shopping ads for example and you can also, it can come up on different search based that you can have like a Google search tool inside of websites and then again you can show up for those ads as well sometimes as well.

Speaker 3: (22:54)
I don't do a huge amount of that because we really are specialists at video. We do kind of like test it every now and again, but I don't know enough information about that until it died. People on that front. But that's all based on keywords. And then you can also advertise based on placements, which is the other type of search traffic for cold traffic. Now placement is basically saying I want to appear in that area where you points out based on a URL so on YouTube you can literally choose the videos you want your pre-roll ads to appear in front of, which is really, really powerful because you can select all your competitor's videos and make sure that your video appears in front of their video, which is really cool and also you can do it with a display network as well.

Speaker 3: (23:36)
So you can say, I want my image, answer my text ads or my video ads to appear on that website there. Now you can't even go to the kind of like the placement itself and say that page on that website which is obviously quite powerful because if you know that a very popular blog like entrepreneur.com has got an article on there specifically about the topic that your business does, then of course you might want to show your ad there and know that you want to get a really good quality audience clicking on your video or your ad on that website so for one of our clients, if they are kind of selling how to do webinars for example, and there's a blog post about the best webinar software, for example, we might say, great, well based on that URL of that website reviewing the best webinar software out there, we want to show our ad next to that content. And you just got to get a really good result from that sort of targeting like that so that's placement targeting so you can do it by keyword or placement for that search traffic and that tends to work really, really well any questions so far today?

Speaker 2: (24:44)
No, I, I'm totally down with what you saying. I think it's important to really just conceptualize kind of the state of the state of search and stay at YouTube really just so that everybody understands where that is because she's very different from display and YouTube is really offers so many options. I mean, one of the things, and one of the takeaways for people there is with placements, the ability to serve a pre roll up based on URLs or videos that you know are getting traction or are getting attention as a result, the people who are uploading those videos, and that they could be your competitors is something that is a big, big thing. Tech, you know, lots of businesses are using YouTube right now anyway. So why not get in front of each of their adverts? Each of that, each of us, sorry, each of their videos with an advert to capture their attention.

Speaker 2: (25:55)
My question about that tactic would be knowing well that your choreographing it so well that you're going to put yourself in front of that video, that that's going to be loading. Can you give them two answers? One, which is what should you probably put in that video and two, how do you pay for that to da do you pay every time it's served? You pay for how long it rooms 4g paved somebody clicks. So what is the, what should go in it? How do they pay for it? And also if you ever thing is probably what should be a call to action, should it be an annotation? Should there be a button? Should there be a link?

Speaker 3: (26:38)
What's the best thing? The questions? Okay. So, let me tackle the price one first. So, with a dis discovery ad, which used to be called an in display ad the video there, your pay when someone decides to click to press play on your video, with, with that type of ad. So that's like a paper click model. And as soon as I click it, you'll pay and then they start watching your video within stream you only pay when someone watches past 30 seconds of your video so it means you are, it's what they call a true view. So if someone decides to click, skip had before 30 seconds or something like 20 seconds in or 29 seconds, and if you really want to fill that far, and the press skip out, it won't cost you a penny.

Speaker 3: (27:24)
And there's a lot of data out there talking about the power of the impression anyway, so you've got your brand out there in front of somebody and it can be really, really powerful. A lot of questions I tend to get from people at that point as well once you've created a video that has less than 30 seconds to try and gain the system or you'll end up paying once someone gets to the end of your video, if it was 20 seconds in length, for example, the audience from the people that watched it but didn't take action. Yes, exactly. Yeah. So you can take an audience, you have to do it in a manual way. So you'd say, let's take everybody who watch that video as an ad or as a, as a normal viewer. If your video is live as well on YouTube for example, and like in your channel for example, you can segment by loads of different like ways I can say if they liked your video, subscribe to your channel if they will, that sort of stuff.

Speaker 3: (28:09)
But you could, yeah. What we do a lot is to say everyone that's watched that video as an ad, let's make an audience of those people. It has to be people that watch past 30 seconds. And then you would exclude all the people that went to the website so that you can then say, right, these are the people that watch the video ad pass 30 seconds but didn't click back to the website. And without audience, you probably don't want to show the same ad to them. Again, you might want to show a different video to them, but now you can talk with them based on not having to advertise the expensive areas, which is like saying based on keyword or based on a placement, you can do it based on a remarketing list at that point. So, yeah, you can, you can take people like that and tell that journey.

Speaker 3: (28:50)
But this is what we always think about the media planning beforehand and really think about what customer journey we want to build for people. And, but those contingencies in place to say, well, I want to go watch the video but didn't click next to the website, we don't wanna keep on bombarding them with the same video ad all the time. So you can exclude them from that campaign, and say, right, they're not going to see that video out again. But instead they're going to start to see this video ad, which is a slightly different experience for that person. I'm still my promoting the same thing but with a different type of message or follow ups that based on the fact that, you know, they watched your first video, so you can, you can be really eloquent, eloquent about eloquent, elegant that doesn't want to say now is he can be very, very clever in a way that you advertise to people, you can really build that customer journey that spoke very specific to their journey and it makes them feel really kind of like you're, you're taking care of them, so to speak.

Speaker 2: (29:46)
Do you have any kind of angle to the question about somebody think about doing a pre roll ad, in front of the competitors, what would be the best way to structure that advert to ensure that somebody continues to watch it and more importantly that they then decide to take some action on the back of it.

Speaker 3: (30:05)
Okay. So one thing I'll do if it's okay with you is that I'll explain the other types of targeting because based on the knowledge you have about how you're getting in front of your customers will determine how you create the video ad and it makes a massive difference if you pay, if you know what sort of traffic you're getting in front of, whether it be search traffic, whether I've engaged with you before, like a video that we just talked about with like some remarketing all based on the fact that they've never heard of you before and they're not even searching for this stuff. The videos need to be different and, and I can talk about how to structure these videos if you like, once we're through the targeting options.

Speaker 2: (30:42)
Yeah. Great. Let's, let's, let's kick into the second w we'll just second talk. It's, and yeah, I mean the next logical one to talk about would be, the people that have kind of engaged with you in some way before they've seen your videos online. They've subscribed well maybe they visited your website before and you've pixelated them with your remarketing pixel or they might be on your list already and they might not be engaging or they may be engaging, but you want to kind of get in front of them in different ways. Basically it's the people that I've engaged with you in some way, because they're on your list already, they know, like, and trust you and getting an offer in front of them is a good idea. So, this is a much smaller audience but you know, there are very, I'm interested and motivated audience and also know who you are.

Speaker 3: (31:40)
So I've got a small group of people that are very close to making a decision to buy from you. They're on your database, they've engaged with you in some way and they liked what they saw and therefore they're going to be primed to, to see an offer from you. And this kind of comes down to, what ad-words would call, your remarketing, your remarketing audiences. So this could be your database, your list that you've uploaded via Google match and it will have that account, have those lists for you or it might be people that have visited your website or engage with your video ads in some way. You can build audiences based off all of that information. So these are people that we know are, who know of you, who are interested in what you have and are close to making a buying decision.

Speaker 3: (32:25)
So, you can kind of have those audiences loaded up inside of your AdWords account and run lots of them, types of ads to them, including video ads. And so you can do text ads. Image ads are all other types of ads as well, like responsive ads and Lightbox ads, which ones going to stay all that detail just yet but you know, that that's that audience data that you can target basically and it's, it tends to be a very, very hot audience. So I'm more than happy to pay a little bit more money on that audience because in the end they come in cheaper typically, but they always, because they already know, like, and trust you. And the chance of having an ad there to promote something that's going to turn into a sale is so much more likely. And so you're not necessarily going for lead gen anymore.

Speaker 3: (33:09)
You'll look like you're literally saying, right, I want to target these people who are buying this particular product. And that's the plan for that particular campaign. And so you treat that traffic slightly differently than you would have search traffic with search. You know, they're motivated, but they might not know who you are just yet with a remarketing list we know they already know who you are and they're motivated, because they're on your list and they've, they've expressed an interest and we can get an offer in front of them. So it's just a hot audience and it's close to making a buying decision.

Speaker 2: (33:38)
Yeah, sure. That's, that makes a lot of sense I can, I can see how that would be relevant and I think it gives people some perspective on that, on those, on those different targeting options. So talk to me a little bit about the third kind of way in which that we can, we can think about search.

Speaker 3: (33:58)
Yeah. So this is where it gets a bit, yeah, sorry. So this is where it gets a little bit about the algorithm and the data that Google have already so this is where it's cold. Again, it's cold traffic. They don't know who you are and they might have indicators to say they could be interested in what you have, but they're not yet in a decision making model. They're not even researching your products or anything like that. They're, they're just kind of like, Hey, look, they could be interested in what you have to offer. And there's a variety, different ways that you can use Google's data to help you one thing we just spoke about there was uploading lists, to Google and also, on your AdWords account and also having remarketing lists. And as soon as you start building those, Google will take that data and they'll build what's called similar to audiences or just similar audiences.

Speaker 3: (34:58)
And so it's very much like a lookalike audience on Facebook. They didn't use to perform well at all. Now it performing really well so five or six months ago we gave it a little test with some big clients and nothing really happened and we always kind of tried to make it work, but nothing really was coming to fruition on those types of campaigns. But now we can literally run video ads directly to similar audiences without any other filtering in place and it can convert incredibly well so the beauty of that is that those audiences are so much bigger so you might have a list of, let's say, I don't know, let's say 50,000 people. That's quite a large list for the most people, bigger than most people listening. You don't need to be that big. But if you have that sort of size, it might give you a list of people that would be, I don't know, like 2 million people for example.

Speaker 3: (35:46)
You can advertise to have very similar looking based on Google's data to that audience you've already got. Now of course, if you're a big quality list, that's great. I would say when you upload them, upload your customer database as well as your prospect database and then all together as one again, so you'd almost have that three lists from one list because if you build a list of your customers is likely to be high quality then if you've got a list of your prospects, yes, likewise. What will also happen is that all start collecting, audiences who have converted on your sites. Say for example, if a conversion pixel for when someone buys a particular product from you, then it will collect that audience. Now build a similar audience to those people. So say for example, you've got a lead, but then you might have a $97 product for example, and you're seeing the conversions happen on that particular product. One that once that gets to a critical mass and it's a big enough audience, then Google come around and say, all right, we'll do like you've had a thousand people buy that now and we can build a list of those people and go to, similar to audience, but now because everyone's been through the process that Google have seen and they've got so many more data points on them, they can build a much better quality audience.

Speaker 3: (37:03)
Yeah, so you've got this kind of like if your list convert, if your similar audience to your list that you've uploaded works fantastic, you're off to the races and you can start getting going. If you need to get some conversion data going through that conversion data is normally very, very powerful. So what ends up happening is you, your account lashing mature with time is the point where you start building. As soon as you start getting better conversions, you start getting more conversions, then you start getting better, less than more conversion and more scope and more scale. And then all of a sudden you're like, right, why do I have to rely so heavily on Google's kind of like targeting all the time. Now I can rely on the similar audience that's getting bigger and bigger every day. And because it's, it's almost like atomizing itself as it goes as well.

Speaker 3: (37:46)
So, so, so there's, that's part of the algorithm that you can build, build out on those, on those processes there are also interests. So, Google will have certain types of interest audiences, already preloaded for you, which is always a good idea to keep an eye on that. Cause there's a, there's an interest group in there that just really resonates with you. So like, say for example, there's people that are in the business world, and you've got like, business professionals might be one for example. That's great. You want an, you obviously want to kind of like, target that type of person because you might think, well that could convert for me quite well. It doesn't always work that well, but keeping on things because different types of ads that might work really well Gmail add for example to that side of top of organs might work really well.

Speaker 3: (38:37)
It could be an interest in marketing and advertising for example. A few of my clients are in that space and we can, we can kind of like use that interest to so run us through and see how we get on with that. Obviously you're going to cold audience that expressed an interest in something, it's not always the best quality, but it pays attention to what we talked about in just a second way. We can create ads that might be right for that audience. Then it's a slightly different ball game, and you can get to get to grips with getting a better result. Then, you also have a similar thing, which is topics as well. So you've got topics that people might be interested in, you can advertise on those but the one that we find is really good to, to advertise on or stop creating is what's called affinity audiences.

Speaker 3: (39:26)
Now, affinity audiences, very similar to interests or pots of interests and they'll kind of list out all the different types of interests you can get in front of. So similar to Facebook, how you might choose some people's pages and the followings there. And you might say, right, people are interested in that. Then I want to advertise to them, Guild under such the same way, but they're saying right there, there's one for example, like it might be a social media enthusiastic if they're going to lots and lots of blogs about social media posts and how social media works. And they'll track all that data based on people's behavior. And I say, okay, well those people are a social media enthusiast them because they're going to all these websites about social media stuff. We can pin them and say, right, they're interested in that topic.

Speaker 3: (40:09)
And normally it's pretty accurate which is great. So then I got like, shutterbugs they call it, which is like people are really interested in photography but you know, people are going to blog posts about photography all the time and therefore advertising to that audience makes a lot of sense but you can do something really clever with something called a custom affinity audience and a customer that is the audience is where you basically decide what sort of audience you want to build. So you can suggest to Google when you say, right, here's all the URLs of websites that I think my audience go to. So it might be something like, HubSpot for him, I know he's just stuck it out, but not in a previous episode it might be kind of Infusionsoft, it might be if you mentioned getting all the different CRMs that are popular with kind of entrepreneurial or small business owners, then you can say, well, everyone's going to, those types of websites are going to be interested in marketing and interested in kind of email databases and things.

Speaker 3: (41:03)
And so therefore they might be interested in what we'd have to offer or maybe you group together all the blogs that are popular in your niche. So, digital markers, it might be one as low as an SEO type blog posts out there as well. You can grab all of those and put them together and, and say, right, anyone that goes to those types of websites, please build an audience for me there as well. Yeah, and you can mix that with keywords as well. So you can say you want to not want to say these URLs and these keywords, can you build a of audience that's like that? And if you, I mean, it's not new, but it's kind of like, it's always difficult to build those audiences really effectively. But if you keep it quite niched in and you start focusing on various types of blogs or review sites as well as some keywords, the audience is a massive, we're talking about like 500 million type audience sizes and things.

Speaker 3: (41:55)
So they're big old audiences, but if you build them, what you can do you might not get great results by advertising straight to those cold but we, and that goes for all different interests as well. But what you can do is you can like overlay different audiences. So you might say, right people that are in this customer affinity audience that I'd built, anyone who's a NetApp big old group there and when they go to these websites and only when it goes to these websites, so you can say, right, I'm only want to advertise on this to these types of people when they go to this type of websites and when you do that, you can start to find, you get still huge audiences to advertise to and you know, that can be that much more interested. They already go to those websites and they're going to this particular website now as well. And when you do that and run ads to that sort of audience, plus all the demographic targeting you might have going on as well, you're not amounting to notch of the hour, then sometimes you, it's a bit too much. But, when you kind of hit that sweet spot, you will find that if you can get that to convert well for you.

Speaker 1: (42:40)
It just feels like it's endless supply of customers for you is kind of like that. So sort of tell me you can scan up and spend those kind of like ridiculous amounts of day, like a $10,000 a day, 20,000, $50,000 a day top of advertising campaigns and that's where it kind of gets really exciting to scale. But it's rare and it's, it's can, it takes a lot of work with literally talking about like the top 1% of the 1% type thing but when you get them to work and you can segment them and you can say, well, we can spend, even if it's $200 a day and it's proven profitable for you, that's great. That's, that's going to be a profit until two pounds investment every single day or $200 every single day. And you really, you built it and you let it go. And you might have a bit of advertising in six months time or 12 months time, but it's not going to come round straight away.

Speaker 1: (43:46)
The ads might need refreshing every three to six months. The offer might need refreshing every 12 months, not hard to, once it's been built. It's not like you're on Facebook having to constantly update things or you just like you've built this system that keeps on generating traffic for you and good quality traffic as well that's kind of a, I think we've covered most of the different types of ways of targeting and hopefully that makes a lot of sense, but we can talk about the ads that you might run, those different types of audiences you can think of now.

Speaker 2: (44:16)
Yeah, sure. So I think really that's the, that's the thing that, hopefully some people will have some perspective on from listening to this is, you know well firstly, when you step back from it, just really how powerful the Google, I know a lot of people talk about Facebook, a lot of people talk about them having, you know, so much data. And that's very true but the Google in itself, you know, coupled with, with YouTube have so many data points and, and, and as you mentioned before, it might take away really from that in terms of the affinity audiences is really just give you, gives you that opportunity to overlay such large markets that then you can then do roles combinations based on that to really dial into some of those niches where is, you know, use them.

Speaker 2: (44:35)
If you some of that targeting your load and you're kind of dealing with a you know, as you put it before an ocean of people. And really what you want to be saying is, well, there's a whole heap of in there and, and I just want those fish that have been to the shore and when they get by, you know, that that's where I'm going to make my catch and you know, there's such a big opportunity now, which are things very obvious from the way that you talk about it and the detail that the, really, you do need to go in and say to really fully appreciate it as well. Really.

Speaker 1: (44:48)
Well, don't say that metaphor a little bit further, but the fish idea is, it's like, you know, when fishermen go out and to begin with, they might cost a load of Bay out into the water just to attract all the fish to one location to begin with what Google do is they give you something called an in market audience as well which is very similar to an interested audience is slightly smaller, but it's grabbing a, an audience whereby that audience is, is closer to a buying decision. So that in like an often go to these types of websites, but more recently they've been going to them quite a bit and they'll have what's called an IMARK audience as well. Great for the eCommerce world, grateful service based businesses as well because you know that like, okay, say for example you're selling to photographers, we talked about that earlier.

Speaker 1: (45:34)
They might like regularly go to blogs and stuff every now and again based on the fact that they love photography that goes to certain blogs. And so Google can track that. But then if they've really upped the game a little bit, cause they're looking to buy a new camera and they've gone to Lowe's and as a review sites as the last couple of weeks would fall into the in market audience. So you can get them based on when they're a little bit more interested. They're kind of like research mode and it's not kind of like a proven science. Like, Oh my God, if you're gonna advertise that audience, you're gonna make a million overnight. But it's, you're going to get a slightly better audience. And it kind of gives you a, give you those rules to play by. And if you segment that with some clever keywords or placements and with different demographics and play around with it and do your due diligence, due diligence and don't try and kind of like say, well, I just want to get in front of men who are interested in photography, but we need to segment a little bit closer in than that because you've got such a vast, that's the sort of time when you can like say am I kind of, I, my daily budget's $1,000.

Speaker 1: (46:38)
You'll spend that $1,000 in less than an hour. It's kind of like last time quick you can go so you just need to segment a segment and segment and then slowly open out until like the traffic is as steady stream that you can deal with.

Speaker 2: (47:52)
So, what I want to do, if it's okay with you we are a partnership in there, so I'm just not going to make the executive decision what I think because there's all of the things we've talked about I've learned to sort of summarize perhaps what is the one thing that somebody could take away from all of that, but it could be actionable that they could go and do right now. That's a must. And then secondly to that if you concur, is that we take the idea of what adverts to create for those different audiences that we could possibly target at the stages and the moments they are and probably move that into a different podcast. So I really like to dial insights. I think that's a real meaty subject. So what would you say has been the one thing to take away from this? That somebody could go and do that you'd say, look, you know, this is the thing really for as a first step.

Speaker 1: (48:50)
Yeah. Okay. So being a YouTube ads guy, I think there's two easy campaigns to build. The, whilst I can't explain it all over a podcast, what I can do to say, do this campaign, it should work well for you. And it's one of two if you're already got traffic coming to your website through Facebook or SEO or like good quality traffic coming to your website already and you're not yet following those, that traffic up on YouTube, build a YouTube ad remarketing campaign. So all the people that go to your work website, you haven't yet signed up. Follow those people up with YouTube ads. It's not how campaigns build, but when you build it, you just got basically to get in front of very high quality traffic. You spent a on it already, but it's going to be dirt cheap to advertise those people and build a really good experience in order to convert them again, so that if you ha if you have got tropical ready and we're talking about kind of a, a good amount of traffic, not because metal, if you've got Riddick isn't as great, but if you're less than a hundred a month, then don't bother.

Speaker 1: (49:50)
There's no point. Pretty good. Again if you are in that stage where you're not really getting much traffic and you're new or you want to build your sites and you want to get kind of like get more traffic coming in, then what I would say is that go for a search campaign on YouTube, but when I say search campaign, it's really saying I go for a pre-roll ad or an instream ad and get in front of other videos on YouTube. So it's building a in-stream campaign, targeting placements. And if you have that in place and it's all about the video in the next episode but doesn't have to be crazy good, she seems to be a clear video about what you offer to those placements that are relevant. Those video URLs are relevant to your niche and if you run that you'll get very good quality traffic, very cheap quality traffic as well. And that's another great campaign to build those ones are like, I'll stock things we do with clients every single day. That's like one of the first campaigns we build always performs well if we, if we planned it out correctly but it doesn't, it doesn't, it's not rocket science to get that one work, those two campaigns working that they're kind of good, easy campaigns to build and they normally provide a very good return on investment.

Speaker 2: (50:59)
Awesome, mate. It's been awesome and certainly learned a lot. There's a lot of information to take away from that. And, there is I think that most people listening will probably be or T or knowledge of YouTube with its depth and breadth that you know about. So, I'm super excited to learn more and look forward to seeing you in the next episode. Coco, who was all about ads and house of credit and based on what we've just talked about here, what should we get? Right. Thanks Tom. That's all right.

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