Speaker 1: (00:00)
You're listening to path to purchase a podcast for passionate and committed business owners and marketers, Oli Billson and Tom Breeze are here to give you the tools and knowledge you need to grow your business and take decisive action. Welcome to the episode.

Speaker 2: (00:14)
It's Tom Breeze and Oli Billson. How are you doing? Very good. And in today's episode we're going to be focusing on lead generation and a strategy behind lead generation as well. And I think it's going to be a really interesting discussion because I mean, I don't know if we actually talked about this in too much detail about these different, Oh, we talked about lead gen and talked about this area in particular, but me running an agency that generates traffic and generates leads for clients and then you run an agency that builds at the back end for clients and, and, and there's a lot more, I know that just that. But, I think it's gonna be really interesting collaborations and conversation about how we do things so I don't know if you want me to kick off first and talk about how I work with clients and then how potentially you do and help us. Definitely.

Speaker 3: (01:02)
I think it is a like a, something that we haven't really spoken about, but I mean it's, it falls directly between us really in terms of what we both do in terms of the agencies but what's interesting for me is that we have, we have kinds, but also I speak to a lot of small business owners that are not short of ideas. They're not sure of things that they could do. You know, they attend events, they go to seminars, workshops, they go to a mastermind meetings, maybe they've got a business coach, whatever it is. How do they go from idea to implementation, in an organized way, that gets them to see a result in the shortest period of time possible. And it's something that a lot of people really struggle with. And one of the biggest things and the reason why you and me exist to a certain extent that with what we do is because people struggle with implementation, and not just doing it but doing it the right way so what's interesting to me about this conversation is just kind of kind of jamming on how we think about it and how we think about lead generation and, and how that, how people can put some of what we talk about I was putting through the context of it to how that they then could apply that to, thinking about their campaigns and actually getting those things into action.

Speaker 2: (02:34)
Cool. Okay. So I think there's gonna be so much we can talk about here and we'll try and keep it concise to a certain extent. So if I start rambling, Oli Ramian and I'll do vice versa anyway. It's fine okay. So, so for me when, when we look at, a new prospect that might come our way, they may have seen me speak on stage or watch some of the videos online or be part of an online training or whatever it might be they've heard about me in some way and I'd not, as you quite rightly say, they normally got some sort of idea and they normally come in and they'd be like, Hey, Tom saw you here. Would really love to talk about how we get, normally YouTube advertising. That's kind of what I get known for. I would do more than just that.

Speaker 2: (03:22)
We do Facebook as well, but we kind of specialize in just video and using that as advertising and not even the SEO side of it. We're thinking about offering that as a service in due course. But like our specialist areas is the advertising side. And I think the first thing that we do, or the first thing I do is, is when a new prospect comes in, it's just a gut call to begin with. Like looking at it and thinking, will this work? Like just, just like what are you looking to promote, what's your landing page, what's your business model and just like from experience will this work or not? And whilst that might not be the most helpful answer, or helpful discussion, it's more a case of like experience of being in the air and working with lots of clients. I kind of get to see what works and what doesn't work because the way I work with clients is, we get paid on results and we get paid when we generate a lead or a customer for our clients.

Speaker 2: (04:11)
And if I just thought that business model is not stacked up to be able to deal with the volume of traffic or I don't, there's gonna be enough profit margin, whether the business or the business is just too new, then there's always going to be a struggle there. Cause I could flood them with leads and the infrastructure do they have behind that might not be able to cater for what we can do for them. So it was always going to be a limitation there. So that's always a consideration one of the things I think is, is a big, big thing, and this goes from the smallest business owner to people that are really experienced is they always believe that, in their own hype to a certain extent and that sounds really kind of patronizing. I don't mean it like that. I mean, like everyone believes that YouTube is going to be the perfect platform for them because they thought like, Oh my God, with this many billion views every single day, all I need is a slight slither of the action and I'm a millionaire.

Speaker 2: (04:59)
So it's not just a burst people's bubbles that are thinking like that. It doesn't always work quite like that the traffic that's going to YouTube are going there because they want to. And the useful traffic, the search traffic that we're interested in is going there because they want to know something, do something or buy something. That's the traffic that we can get in front of. And sometimes that traffic just doesn't exist for some niches I think we talked in a previous episode about color practice no one's going to YouTube. Well very few people are going to YouTube typing in back pain. How do I deal with back pain because, and be a serious prospect because they're probably gonna go to Google for that stuff and look for a chiropractor. Whereas there are other moments where you can get in front of the ideal audience.

Speaker 2: (05:43)
And we talked about like people that are typing in things like how to train for a marathon. You can get your message in front of those people and provide an offer to those people. So there's ways of getting in front of good quality traffic still but it's sometimes it's not obvious place to start. Like for me, people don't really type in how to advertise on YouTube. So I don't really, I'm there for that. But it's not like the biggest selling in the world. Not many people are going there for that information. Whereas people are going there to say, right, how do I get more leads and customers? How do I create a lead generation campaign for example? People are typing that sort of stuff in and I can get in front of those people. So I just have to think about where my audience are going and what they're really interested in.

Speaker 2: (06:25)
And that's a consideration. Facebook is slightly different. Facebook is like you're getting in front of people based on their interests and their demographics and their locations and all that sort of stuff similar to YouTube as well, but it's based on their interests. So it's not necessarily the intent and when we're advertising to those people, there's a lot of people there. But then you've got to think, right, well is the offering I have here going to be juicy enough? It's going to be actually yet, damn, I want that. I want that thing that you're offering to them in and that the information you're providing is actually useful so there's a few considerations there. One, is there a marketplace for this brand new idea that you have as a business owner? And I think the other thing is, is that, and sorry, just to back up for a second, is there a marketplace for it?

Speaker 2: (07:09)
And if not, can you kind of create one? Can you kind of get in front of that audience in a clever way, like the chiropractor idea with the marathon idea? And then do you have an author, that's going to be something that people really want, not necessarily what they need but like actually genuinely see it and it's like, Oh, I want that thing because the middle ground is that like, like meeting them there and creating an ad that connects those two things of like, is there a marketplace that wants something that is easy, that bit can be covered? And that's kind of like how do you create a video ad and that, that it's kind of not too much of a problem, especially for us as an ad agency, but just identifying is there a market for it and is there a good offer that you have as a business?

Speaker 2: (07:49)
If those two things we have, then we can do lead generation all day long. And that's like, it becomes more of a science than it does an art, so to speak. It becomes more like, how do we specifically do that is kind of how to create the ad, but it has to be a market and it has to be a good offer and there has to be a good business behind it. I suppose that's the best kind of like the keys that we would look for in taking on a new client and whether they can create that or not is is, is down to some market factors but that's normally where we start I'm not sure if that helps you and I suppose this conversation now leads them to what you do, but yeah, no, definitely. I want to be honest with you. I mean pretty much, you know, going into marketing, anything going into automating anything, going into crafting any messages or what before you even get that far is predicated on the fact that you've actually got a worthwhile service, a good service that's actually worth promoting and making sure that that business model is, is worth, marketing and scaling really as you said, I know it might seem, you know, a bit crazy or silly for people to hear that on the call that is a lot of people with bad businesses believe it or not and you know, often, they want to go and try and test out different things and actually they can just waste a whole load of time and money because really their business model just doesn't really fit that very well.

Speaker 3: (09:17)
And also when it comes down to lead generation, the business model and the way that they, the channels that they, they, that they do business, and really need some consideration. Now the way that I kind of see this is, is like, having, if people who are on video might to see me do this, but you know, if your, you people are at different altitudes of decision making when they first, when they first see what you've got to offer. So for example, let's take a car apart to, and as an example, they are, like a, almost ground level basis of making a decision right? Ground me, they're going to make a decision that will begin. It just slightly hovering above that because they've got a problem, they've got pain that lead to by a time is like instant.

Speaker 3: (10:11)
They have got like they've got a problem, they need it sorting out and they need it sorting out quickly. Same with an osteopath or anything like that, right? Same to a certain degree with a dentist. Unless they've got an ongoing relationship with somebody, you know, whatever it might be. You've got a problem. You need it. Solving your cargo hovering around ground, the, the, the, the, the ground to be able to make that decision. You know, the spaces is neither here and all that. Whereas you're not going to have a chiropractor necessarily where you're going to do five things. You need to know before you, you know, to X chiropractor because they, those people are not a 30,000 foot from making a decision. Now, when you take, when you take, maybe somebody that's, that's not intentionally looking for something to solve that, that, that their problem, they're a lot further away from you.

Speaker 3: (11:10)
And so the type of funnel type of campaign needs to be crafted differently means to warm people up, get them to endo, you know, indoctrinate them, know, like, and trust. Give them value, to the point where you bring them from 30,000 foot to 20,000 foot, 20,000 foot to 10,000 foot, 10,000 to 5,000 foot and closer and closer to the ground before they make a decision. And now those lead to buy a times are often, you know, longer because they haven't heard about what you do. They're not necessarily predisposed to pay the money for what you, you know, that you, that you, you try to make the sale on whenever it may be so you've got to think about that and so, you know, for one of our businesses, we sell, like I'm one away from the agency. We, we, we have a, an international franchise network, 170 franchisees in that particular business.

Speaker 3: (12:05)
As you can imagine, people when we marketing to them and not necessarily looking for that particular type of business opportunity. Now it's fair to say some people might be at the 10,000 foot, decision making process because they're looking for a change in direction. They're looking for a franchise books. There are lots of other people that are in a job. They're in the humdrum of the nine to five. You know, the drudgery of the 95. They, they don't have the disposable income that they want. They're not happy at work. They may be potential for redundancy. They're at like 30,000 square, 30,000 foot in there. And so they're in a different place. Now I'm afraid to say you've got to kind of do the hard work to make the selling easy. I must have said that. I don't know how many times on these podcasts, but it's true.

Speaker 3: (12:59)
You know, the type of funnel that you might put in place. So those people at 30,000 foot, it will be different to those people at 10,000 thoughts and if you, you know, dependent upon, you know, you know who you are and what you do. If you're a photographer, for example, there's no point in offering an ebook or a report or a wipe, whatever about, you know, what you should look for in a, in a, in a [inaudible], you know, you should be offering some kind of competition perhaps to enter to get something for free because it's just a different offer and it's a different funnel because people are at different places when they are going to make those decisions so in order to get people at the right time, and you need to know where they are and not, people are always hovering ready to make a decision. Sometimes there are a lot further you know, the, there are a lot further, from an altitude perspective than, than other people.

Speaker 2: (14:05)
So, okay. So if, if I was able to generate, cause I, I talk about in our business, in the agency we talk a lot about moments. So, the moment someone is in this scenario so that like, and we try and define as clearly as possible to say, right, this is this sort of person cause we can define the age and an agenda, and parental status as well. And locations. We can say that sort of person is looking at this type of video and we're going to get in front of them and interrupt them with pre-roll ads, what are we going to say at that point to really connect to that moment they have. And we try and select the moments that have a lot of volumes. A lot of people are having those moments and have a lot of value to the business as well.

Speaker 2: (14:47)
So, but we don't often, cause we'd work it backwards, right? Because the client would typically say to us, here's our lead gen page, here's our opt in page or lead magnet page or whatever they want to call it. It's something they're going to give away giving away for free in exchange for a name and email. And they normally give us that and then we work towards that. So we kind of reverse engineer it from that stage. And it's interesting because I think a lot of agencies like, look, we're set up sort of thing. It's like I'll do traffic side, another agency will do the conversion side. And I wonder if I was to, and this might be something that's complicated to set up but might be like the most idealistic way of setting things up. So for example, we were to really collaborate on a funnel together.

Speaker 2: (15:31)
It might be that I can get that like 1000 foot client is so ready to buy because they're typing in something like how to generate more clients from building my first ever email campaign or something like that. And we know that like there, that's a very targeted in focus and we know that like it won't be long before we can say to them, Hey, buy this as teach you what to do and they'll probably be ready to buy that. Whereas, if I was to look at it and say, right, well I can advertise to people that are looking to say like, how do I get more customers? That's kind of like a higher altitude and at that level we might be able to save. Right? We can get that traffic still. And I still might be interested in doing business with you, but we wouldn't want to put the email marketing campaign, free magnet in front of them or that lead magnet in front of them because there's just be a disconnect there. So we're sending through a different funnel at that stage. But then you would I suppose, calibrate that based on the fact that we know where the traffic source is coming from and a level of intent as oppose and the altitude of them. So you could almost like form multiple funnels as a result through the traffic we're sending.

Speaker 3: (16:38)
The truth is those front end funnels at that stage don't necessarily have to be hugely deep in terms of where they go to, they probably a front end and then they may then go into more of a core funnel. I mean, the ultimate situ, the ultimate situation is to have, you know, sophisticated funnels for every type of message to market match that you could have all at different altitudes and different things. Right? Most people are not going to do that. They need to start somewhere. And this is why really they need to engineer the a a, a really, really consider what they are, what they want and what is the Ascension path for that customer. If there is one, you know, we spoke to an earlier pro in an earlier podcast about starting with the self liquidating offer, and then working backwards now.

Speaker 3: (17:35)
Again, it's kind of the analogy of it depends of the, the, how you've engineered the business. You know, I remember hearing a, taught by Perry Belcher, about, I can't remember, they, that he was selling, well I think it was candle wicks or something like that. And like, you know, he, he created this business. It was all engineered around, you know, creating these wicks and selling them at the cheapest price almost at cost, but he's getting a buyer, he's getting some B over the free line and then he can sell other things to them. It's the same thing with the guitar pick thing. You know, selling gift topics, you know, becoming the, the word world-renowned person with guitar picks. You've got the biggest buyers database that then going to send people into buying something like guitars, believe it or not. Same. My analogy to either the day was squash balls.

Speaker 3: (18:27)
You know, if you became the squash ball supplier and you wanted to sell squash rackets and be the distributor for squash racket, what better buyer's list to have than to have, the, the, you know, be selling those squash balls so really depends, really depends on the way that your business is kind of a setup and what you want to have happen when you start looking at lead generation and what that actually means for you does it mean that you know you're going to have multiple funnels or are you going to always dial in to the big audience that 30,000, maybe 50,000 did I want to say square foot, I think it is. Yeah. If you, thousand foot, 50,000 foot audience, you know, that's huge, is absolutely massive. And where do you send those people, you know, and what does that funnel look like and how do you ascend people?

Speaker 3: (19:27)
And how do you liquidate the, the traffic cost of course, and then how to get people up towards the way you ultimately want them to be. Or are you always going to be concentrating on the people that are the 10,000 foot people, whether with a campaign now and you need to find, you know, you need to start somewhere but you need to understand, like you just mentioned, you know, there's a lot, there's so many hidden markets, that you can, you can go and find a much bigger palms to go and fish in to find good quality customers and good quality leads but they're just a lot further away from you and those tactics to bring them down to a buying decision, you know, is going to be, is really, is different. It's just different.

Speaker 2: (20:16)
Well there's, I think that like, one of the, one of the, like the perfect scenarios that we have with clients that come on board is where they have this kind of like core product and it sells incredibly well and it has done for many years and they're used to selling it in multiple different ways. Like it could be from stage, it could be from webinar, it could be from anything and they get these, it could be like JV webinars, it could be like, what are the sorts of traffic people naturally want to go and buy this thing anyway. They're muddled by it. Straight off the page is a bit more of an investment behind it. And so it's not the sort of thing that I say, right? Cold traffic, they see a video ad and also on their land and the patients say, Oh, do you know what I'm ready to buy now?

Speaker 2: (20:53)
That's unlikely and so what we do is we say, well, we don't actually do this but we, we recommend to clients and then they'll build this, is we normally say to them, look, we know there's an audience that really want to know this information and if we sold them something for cheap at that point, build that know, like, and trust, get that kind of like a payment details from them at that point they've made that micro-commitment. It's much easier at that point to make that bigger commitment to say, all right, I'm willing to spend $10,000 or it doesn't mean to you quite that big. It could be bigger, it could be smaller, it could be anything. But there's a, there's a connection there, which is kind of like, almost like they bought that first product and the next product is easier to make the purchase on or they built their first product and they're more likely to attend a webinar or something along those lines because they've had value from you first.

Speaker 2: (21:39)
It's almost like similar to reciprocity, but it's more like you've over-delivered on that small purchase they've made already. It could be like a, a free purchase of a book, but you have to pay for the postage and packaging for example, or a just a $7 product to be emailed out to you, for example, kind of qualification and before they get there. Right. As exactly. Yeah. So it's still an option. So we still got the option and then they get to go and buy that first product and that product, yes it does that qualification there, but you still got the people in the database anyway. But it is that kind of like we've, the perfect thing for us is that we've got a product now that really taps into the moment of someone on YouTube looking up a particular type of thing.

Speaker 2: (22:22)
So say for example, is a chiropractor, it's that marathon kind of thing. Like the products, the end of the day is maybe like a six week course of chiropractic work. When you're back, for example, it doesn't matter what you're doing really, if you're whatever age you are or anything, the price is going to be pretty similar. It's pretty similar. There's a diagnosis as a kind of like, there's probably a treatment side to it as well as you can probably tell, I'm not a chiropractor, but that's the idea. But then you might have like a marathon funnel to that or you might have a, an old person I that old person and older person who is into that gardening funnel as well. What you can advise those people beforehand. Like there's a moment on YouTube where people are looking up how to garden for example, we can tap into to say, don't put your back out like you did last year and, and continue with lots of these different funnels, but they all feed back kind of core product.

Speaker 2: (23:09)
It could be like a membership site, it could be a service, it could be anything and I, I can really, work with clients in that way when they have these, mini, opt-ins. And I'm just thinking about a few clients now. Like ones in the, in the gun industry whilst we can't sell guns straight off from YouTube advertising, we can sell some of the accessories that go with that. So some of the oils to clean your gun and some of the silhouettes that they can fire out for example, those can be sold easily. And then for some marketing clients as well, they might have a particular strategy for Twitter for example. So we can sell that. But that bottom up, breaking that off. Yeah, breaking that off from the core is the like the easiest way, as well as if it's congruent to the core product, breaking part of it off and then making that available as a low end products to then get people in as a buyer is a big deal. I mean one thing that, one thing that we speak about like so much and I'm just want to bring it back to how what you do with traffic and talking about lead generation has such a profound impact as a, as a, as a, as a channel on bringing more people into whatever funnel that it is that you're building. Is this really, we talk a lot about internet marketing kind of strategies and you know, bricks and mortar type businesses that are using these kinds of strategies to get in front of an audience and be that YouTube, Facebook, whatever it may be.

Speaker 3: (24:35)
But things that I have found, more and it's more of an opposite. This is just more of an observation and then I'll just talk a little bit about how this, how I discern this, marketing strategy and in going to implement stuff is people focus so much on some of these online tactics and they can be very powerful they're not applicable for every business, although they can be made applicable. You know, for the things for sure is that a lot of people don't consider the conversion point. Now for some people that's not buying online, that conversion point is over the phone. That conversion point is in some cases getting a call scheduled to some people it's, getting an application filled in online and we've always got to think about where it is that we're trying to get people to, you know, what's that end point?

Speaker 3: (25:39)
Is it replying to an email even, you know, what is that conversion point? And, where, where I go with that is that, you know, for me there's so many aspects to, other things that can go ahead to support that. Once you've generated a lead, you need to think about where you're trying to take people to and that, that, that journey begins with the traffic that you sending people, you know, from, what, where people coming from so, you know, we, we spoke a little bit in the thigh that slick self liquidating offer or kind of trick wire, that lower end product that's differentiating the buyers from the non-buyers and then ascending those buyers into another product. But also there's, you know, getting people to schedule a call, getting people to reply to an email, getting people's contact information so that we can text people so that we can follow it with them over the phone.

Speaker 3: (26:42)
A big thing that seen recently and worked really well is actually off Facebook is a lead ad that then says, we'll text you, the, you know, the link to then go and view a video. So, we're going to unlock the video for you, but we're going to text you the link. Right? Right. Yeah. And you've got to imagine that you've got a match where they are. It's like, think of it this way from a lead generation perspective. If I send a postcard to a cold list today, but I tell them to go online, I mean offline to online campaigns we do all of the time, but it's more difficult for them to then go onto their computer to then go in and type in the URL, maybe a vanity tracking URL or whatever because they're not, they might not be next to the computer.

Speaker 3: (27:34)
Right. It's like, you know, it, it's, it's more difficult for them as a response mechanism to go ahead and do that with a YouTube Facebook when that, in that moment, as you put it, this is more with YouTube, but if they're scrolling their newsfeed, let's get it to Facebook, like lead ads right now that on their mobile. So if I can match that modality up with a text-based mechanism, rather than having them to go out to maybe an email to go through their emails to get something like that, I'm thinking with that in mind when I'm getting them to take that action. So that moves them down the funnel a little bit further because our map matching the, the, the media with the mechanism. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2: (28:25)
Yeah, exactly. It delivers, it delivers a, almost like a, a good experience in an, in a user friendly way. Right. So it's like, it's like saying if you're on your mobile, you're going to get a text most. And so it's just, it's just like, okay, that, that's easier for that person at that moment in time. And therefore the experience that customers, it's just that much better as well.

Speaker 3: (28:47)
Yeah, for sure. And any, you know, if I was in a video series, I'm not necessarily going to text them the link to do bumps to the next video. You know, I might use it as a reminder, but I'm not gonna use it as like a, an, because you just need to match those modalities up, and, and configure where all those little conversion points are, of, you know, moving them along and from a lead generation perspective, you know, the way that, these are considerations that, you know, when you start thinking about running traffic, you need to think about these small nuances to consider what's going to have the best of fat. You know, and as you just said before, you know, we've ran lots of traffic to, you know, say a video series for example, gets lots of clicks, but actually when they get there, just doesn't, you know, just doesn't seem to work.

Speaker 3: (29:43)
Why not? Well was, you know, did the video that they saw before or did the ad pre-frame what they were just about to see where they congruent and in his basic term, you know, when we do offline to online campaigns, we're doing lead generation offline to online send a postcard. You can bet your bottom dollar that the landing page I'm sending them to looks like a postcard. Believe it or not, he's got the same coffee on it to get them to opt in so that we know that they got to that master in the same way as, you know, if you're running a, you know, I'm sure you can talk about this from a, from a traffic perspective, you want to know where you're sending them to. Like you were saying, your clients have got something, that you, they want to promote like an offer. They know that works. You're going to want to create, you know, your traffic to try and match that. Otherwise there's going to be that disconnection between the two things.

Speaker 2: (30:35)
Yeah. And I, I think, I think we call it, ad scent than I, so it's like, it's like the look and the feel and the language and everything about that first and then on the landing page matches up and it's really interesting whenever I talk to any of my editors, who might like edit up the videos, et cetera, I'll send them the actual landing page and say, right, any needs to kind of match everything. The font, the color, the style. Even if you want to take a snapshot and put that in the video ad itself. So when they get there, it's almost that familiarity. They know they're in the right place straight away. That definitely increases conversions at that point. And it's just that, that ad is just the website and the ad to get them there just feels like it's a congruent process and, that always works really, really well.

Speaker 3: (31:21)
So, we spoke very, you know, you know, kind of quite generally about lots of different things, that would make, you know, make an impact and move the dial for people that are looking at lead jam but where do you start? I mean, we, we, we've got a really good podcast about avatars, in terms of crafting, you know, that perfect mass, you know, getting that perfect message to market match. But, from a, from an advertising perspective, if, if somebody's not coming to you with an offer, they're not coming to you with a lead magnet what, what are you going to advocate that they do if they're looking to get started with, you know, let's say YouTube for example and then I can pick it up in terms of, you know, the, the offer, what we'd do from that.

Speaker 2: (32:14)
Sure. Okay. Perfect. So why don't we, why don't we try and take a case study? You want to give us a business type or something like that so I can kind of get a feel for, what sort of angle we can attach to.

Speaker 3: (32:25)
Yeah, good idea. Okay, cool. So, let's talk about, maybe a weight loss clinic. Okay weight loss clinic provide services to help people lose weight surgery.

Speaker 2: (32:40)
So surgery. Okay, cool. And would it be, let's, let's just for argument's sake, it's kind of going to be based on nutrition as well as, some exercise or some intervention.

Speaker 3: (32:51)
So it will be, yeah, it'd be about them coming into the clinic to get like a meal plan and then go on a machine to help them, you know, lose weight or whatever it may be. Both balance of exercise, but also some intervention as well, I would say.

Speaker 2: (33:05)
Okay. Good. Good question. So at this point, they don't have a lead magnet whatsoever. They don't have something they can offer for free or anything like that. They're just thinking we are an agent or we're a clinic that has just survived by being a brick and mortar clinic. But now we're looking to get just, you know, D yeah. Just [inaudible] they just been working off word of mouth really. Pretty much. Yeah. People calling into them. Yeah.

Speaker 2: (33:27)
Cool. Okay. That's a good question. Okay, cool. So let me, Matt, let me make it a little bit easier because I, I, I've kind of not cheated, but like I've had a client in this space for a long time.

Speaker 2: (33:38)
Okay. You're trying to kind of like get the [inaudible].

Speaker 3: (33:42)
They've never done anything with YouTube before and they've not really done much with Facebook. So, our funnel, takes them into a shed you'll call. So they actually schedule a call with a, what we call a patient coordinator, but it's all intents, the person we're going to call it a sales call, where they then book a consultation on the back of that call, actually in store, in, in, in, in the clinic itself. So they showed you a call and then they have a car, they have a call, at that time and then they try and book a consultation for them to go into the clinic.

Speaker 2: (34:17)
Got it. Okay, cool. So, I would start off really looking at it and saying, right, if it's weight loss related information, and it's a clinic, so there's a clinic and it'd be a local area. So I'm starting to get a little bit, a little more selective over like [inaudible]. So for example, there's like an international company and they were selling a weight loss pill for example, that could be shipped around the world. The idea there would be like, we're going international so we can like zero in on a few search terms. That would be very, very narrow. But when it comes to a local business, we've got to be a little bit more kind of like to get the volume of traffic that we kind of want. We've got to kind of like push the boundaries a little bit and try and advertise it in a clever way and know really the brand awareness is going to play a bit more of a bigger role.

Speaker 2: (35:05)
Because it's like they might not, they might, you might be getting in front of an audience that know they need to lose weight but might not be ready there and then to lose weight, if that makes sense. There might be like, it was a few barriers to entry before that so that would just be a consideration as I started looking at somewhere like YouTube, I'd be like, okay, so even though there might be a lot of search around weight loss videos, we know it's going to be a much smaller when it comes to their sphere of influence, like where they can get clients from so we identify how far people are willing to be willing to travel to the actual clinic itself. And then what I'll do is I'll start looking at what people are really typing in, what sort of information are people loving on YouTube and, and wanting to find out more about.

Speaker 2: (35:48)
And so I'll probably do a little bit of search about weight loss, maybe kind of like just go gut reaction for now. Don't go and try and do any clever kind of keyword research or anything. I really just think about the moments that people are in. So put myself in, a male situation. Think also ask them about their perfect customer. So like is it someone who's like morbidly obese or is it someone that's just looking to shed a few pounds for the holiday, so get a kind of feel for who kind of tends to be their perfect client cause that's going to play a big role in the traffic. We try and get, and I just have to look around, like put ourselves in the shoes of the, the male of the female and I would probably break them up cause weight loss is going to be a very different thing for those two avatars as such for a male losing weight it's probably, I would have thought gut reaction probably more to do with health and looking good female, again, health and looking good but probably more of an emphasis on looking good. That's kind of me taking a stereotypical judgemental cool on that. But I might be incorrect on that, but these are the sort of processes I would go through mentally when I'm going into that sort of area.

Speaker 3: (36:58)
They probably tried quite a few different weight loss programs before you know, they, that, that they're like a resource investigator. They know that they've got a problem but, but they, you know, they're always, they're looking for different ways to, to, to, to, to solve the issue, you know, the new latest thing or whatever it may be.

Speaker 2: (37:18)
Perfect. Yeah. Okay, cool. So I would probably start off with something like weight by weight loss, nutrition for weight loss and the area knowing that I probably wouldn't advertise in those areas to begin with what I start looking at is there is always like these programs, that are, really, really popular in the UK and internationally as well, like different weight loss regimes and diets for example, and also exercise programs as well. So, there's some branded, exercise DVD you can guess and all that sort of stuff. And there's a lot of people like doing reviews on those sort of products and saying, is it good for this sort of person? Is it good for that sort of person? Those videos get a lot of views and also they're much closer to the buying cycle for a clinic. Does that make sense? If someone's saying, should I really invest in this type of diets or should I really, get him involved with this sort of program? Yup.

Speaker 3: (38:13)
So it's by association kind of what you're looking at is like, okay, these are the things that are extol. They're associated by extension of what they're looking for. So the brands of maybe the nutritional supplements or the, the, you know, they're already looking at know other weight loss programs that that might be established in the marketplace. Again, some brand association and then using that as a, as a, as a way to kind of understand that audience. Really.

Speaker 2: (38:45)
Exactly. Yeah. So, so if I put myself in the shoes of let's say a Fulcher old female who knows that she wants to lose weight and maybe like three stone for example, she's tried a lot of things in the past and failed miserably and now she's looking to like say, right, I'm actually committed to this. Now what do I need to do? That lady is never going to type in weight loss tips that she's past that already. She's not. That's like the 30,000 foot thing you talked about earlier. She's at like a 2000 foot of like, man, I need to do something about this. My doctor told me I need to lose weight, or, or my daughter has just had grandchildren. I just literally can't keep up. There's going to be things like that. It's going through her head.

Speaker 3: (39:23)
So do you think, do you think that maybe, you know, I mean, neither of us are experts in this space. Obviously we're using it as an example, but maybe you know, if, if they're at that 10,000 foot level and are they looking at non-surgical alternatives or alternatives to surgery? So it's kind of like weight loss, alternatives to surgery, or you know, they've said if you don't do something then this is going to go one way. You're going to have to, you know, or maybe it's not that that's heading for surgery, but that's the only other option that they feel that they could take. So what are the alternatives to surgery or they might be even looking at surgical procedures.

Speaker 2: (40:03)
Is that, that's what I was gonna say there.

Speaker 3: (40:05)
You see that already at that point, right?

Speaker 2: (40:07)
Yeah. There might be something like, I was gonna say earlier, like typing and things like, did diet pills work or something along those lines. Like everyone knows, everyone thinks it's probably, I wouldn't like to take diet pills just cause I don't know really what's in them and they're new on the market in terms of like how long they'd been there. So clinical trials, they've probably gone through some, but not over time. It's like, I don't know, like I'm in the 1920s, the government said, Oh, you're pretty good if you start smoking. You know what I mean? I know. So there's certain things around that that I think we still have, like putting a pill in our mouth and swallowing a pill in order to make us thin. Something's not completely right about that. And I think we all know that, but we don't know. It might be healthy enough for now, but there's, there's a consideration there's going to be like a reply, like meal replacement therapy or something like that. I'm sure there's something around that sort of stuff there is going to be gastric band surgery stuff, that people would be typing in. And those are the people that are kind of like thinking, right? Is gastric band surgery actually safe success stories of gastric brand then would you, is that where then maybe in a, in a YouTube perspective in terms of framing this example for other people, how they could apply it to their business, would we say is gastric band surgery for me, question Mark and then you would [inaudible] then you would be creating some content about that.

Speaker 2: (41:28)
Precisely. So if someone's looking up gastro, if we found that like gastric is a topic provided enough volume and we know there's enough value there because at the time if they're thinking about gastric band surgery, I don't know how much it costs, but it's not cheap. And the alternative of going through with this clinic, it's probably going to be the same price or cheaper probably, I'm not sure. But we're in the right sort of ballpark figure. I think that then if the, if you're, if you are, let's say for example you had 10,000 people in front of you thinking like an audience or something, all of them in there because they're seriously considering doing gastric band. All they really need is a plastic surgeon to stand up on stage and say it's completely safe by here. And they'll go and buy, if they were at that stage, you could quite easily get in front of them and the message to say, Hey, look, before you really seriously think about surgery, and I'm not here to discredit it or anything like that.

Speaker 2: (42:20)
I just want you to know there's an alternative and I just want you to know that there's a different way of doing this. And at that stage, based on that, that moment that someone's in of looking for gastric band type stuff, you kind of know what the lead magnet is going to be and you don't need to probably give away anything for free. They probably just need to know a video about how it works. Like what is the process. There isn't that much value. There is a case of just like saying, here's a video of what you need to know about and what's the ins and outs. You maybe download a brochure for example, so you can read it in your own time. And also here's the call button here sort of thing. So talk to one of our, our, like no obligation calls with our sales team or something like that. Just keep it really upfront because they're at the point and ready to purchase. And so we don't have to over deliver anything. We're just kind of saying, here's, here's what the truth is. Really. Yeah. And then I wouldn't have thought the funnel on the back end needs to be that extensive. You might want to think about how you follow up with those people that are kind of [inaudible], but you know, you've got them in that like what you would say something like 2000. Yeah.

Speaker 3: (43:24)
Yeah. And the truth is, like we were talking before about conversion points and using this as an example. My conversion point in this particular example before we even looked at the ads was, well, my conversion point is that they sell over the phone. They actually need to speak to somebody. The mentality that these people are in, they want somebody to understand them. So they need to have that human interaction. We can't be putting a video sales letter together to try and convert them online. And that's where, and I just want to say this to people that are listening here. I know we've talked about, you know, this has been quite an elongated conversation about this, but this is the really important thing. People want to do things that are just not right for their business.

Speaker 1: (44:31)
Don't have the attitude of, Oh, you know, my book, my business is different. Okay. Using their Dan Kennedy ism, right? There are a lot of people use that and it is bullshit. You know, your business isn't different. All of this stuff will work, but the tactics that you employ just because you've seen it work for someone else you know, you should look at how you can adapt things to business. But in that particular example, you've got to really know and understand your audience. Like that won't work. If from your example that you're trying to send me into video sales, I know that the conversion point is that they need to speak to some day with phone active way of doing that is to schedule a call and actually schedule a call because here's the thing, go a little bit deeper into the avatar. Do the hard work.

Speaker 1: (45:43)
Think about this. If they want to lose weight with cert without surgery, and maybe you've pre-framed that, that's going to cost some money, okay? It's going to cost them money. They might not want their partner knowing, therefore they're going to want to shed. You'll a call around when they're not in, they're not gonna want to give away their mailing address or don't try and ask for their mailing address because they don't want mailing mail stuff arriving with a third plan below with, you know, a big thing across saying, you know, weight loss clinic, they don't want that postman to know. Right. So like you really, really gotta think about this stuff and how that applies to your business. So the conversion points, they need to speak to somebody. Why? Because they need somebody to understand them. They need somebody to talk to almost counsel and you don't want to be sending dark mouth so don't ask for it. Right. You know, often when people talk about like conversion points in terms of don't ask for too much information. No. Like ask for as much information as you need to ask for. So like, it's not about, Oh God, do you know first step of the landing page. Only ask for first name and email. Well, if you want light or even email, if you want a qualified lead and this person, and for you to have all of that information, ask for that information, right? Don't be scared to ask for it if it's relevant. So it's true and I think that like there's so many, so many people that are in a space where they don't know what to do and so they'll go and listen to an expert and then there'll be like, right, they've told me this way. But there's so many factors that come into play. Like, so say for example, it's a pretty new business that doesn't have or can't afford, to have an agency running their stuff for the next 15 years or whatever it is without proof, without proof. And they can't, they don't have enough time for like a lag time of traffic. For example, if someone says, well, I've got to spend money today and it's got to kind of make me money by next week. Otherwise we go under, for example, there's certain decisions making that you have to go into at that point.

Speaker 2: (46:48)
Like you wouldn't go in for weight loss tips you would go in at is gastric band for me. And then you wouldn't go in for this like 20 week email campaign because you, that you kind of need to make someone like someone needs to buy from you there and then cause you can't have that lag time for example. But also it's just not needed. Sometimes. Like I see a lot of companies that are very new startup companies are looking to build a massive list and then think, well, I'm gonna nurture that relationship, later on on, or I'm going to just nurture that relationship and sell them something later. And sometimes it's like, do you know what ready people are ready to buy? And if you just put something good in front of them, they're going to buy. And you might say, well, it's going to cost you a little bit more per lead if they have to fill in more detail in the opt in page.

Speaker 2: (47:33)
That's what you need sometimes. And, and, and you're going to get much high quality and then it's going to be, you're only dealing with a few prospects but are all going to buy as opposed to dealing with loads of prospects and very few of them in a bar. You might not have a sales team that can afford to do that to go through like 200 calls a day and only make one purchase for example. That might make sense financially, but it's much easier to have like just like three prospects come through and two of them become customers and, and it's like the ROI. That's the thing is like, it's more expensive per lead, but the ROI is much better because when you look at the rest of the business, it's a lot cheaper to run which is, it's just that consideration sometimes and it's that understanding of what you really want and need at that point in time. And then later on, once you have this big booming business and brand is more important than money, like, building your brand is just as important as revenue you're gonna generate from that campaign, then that's a different consideration. So is it different times of the business and different strategies that will come with that, but don't always listen to the, every piece of marketing advice out there even. It can be really good content and advice, but it might not be right for the business at the right time.

Speaker 1: (48:39)
Yeah, definitely. No, that's really good advice I hope our listeners have got a lot out of that conversation and, Tom is going to be, well look forward to speaking to you next time. Thanks so much for staying on. And of course it's going to get cool.

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