Oli Billson is back to talk more about his FSMC Formula. But this time, Oli takes it beyond that initial conversion and talks about how to use this formula to keep the customers who have clicked. He goes over how to use the FSMC Formula to prevent this “follow-up failure.”
He also teaches you how to create a campaign and how to score leads so you can focus on users with the highest chance of conversion.
In this episode you'll learn:
- How the FSMC Formula will help you even after you get your leads
- What “follow-up failure” looks like and why you want to prevent it in your business
- An example of the FSMC formula in the wild that will help you shape your own campaign
- How to create contingencies around asking “if they do X, then we do Y,” and “if they don’t do X, then we do Z”
- How to differentiate great leads from poor leads using a lead scoring strategy
Hey guys, it's Darren Clark here, the producer of the show and I'm really excited about another new podcast that launched last week, business lunch with Roland Frasier. If you haven't subscribed yet, you are going to want to do that. Go now to digital [inaudible] dot com forward slash podcast cause we are doing a giveaway with iPads, iPhones and airports just for subscribing. And this week on Wednesday we are talking to Todd Herman, the high performance coach. This is one of my absolute favorite episodes and he shares some mind blowing secrets on how he works with world class athletes and BNS. And on Friday we have the legendary biohacker Dave Asprey. So go to digital marketer.com forward slash podcast all right, back to you. Rough.
Speaker 2: (00:50)
You've been listening to perpetual traffic. Hello and welcome to the perpetual traffic podcast. This is Ralph Burns and this is episode one 79 I am here solo flying solo without Molly Pittman this week. But I have one of our favorite guests, if not the favorite guest just for this podcast and said, I'm going to say is our favorite guests, at least for this week. Mr Oli Billson. What's up buddy? What's up? That's quite an introduction. Impressive. I'm impressed. Thank you. This is your third time on here. I mean it took us what, 150 episodes to get you on the first time and now you've been on here three times in the last 30 episodes, so you must be doing something right all of a sudden. What the heck? Yeah, now you just can't get rid of me and we're already planning future episodes. I mean, I feel like part of the family now you are and you're a part of the adopted British perpetual traffic family, so it's always good to have somebody that sounds like they know what they're talking about on this show because also Americans, us, me and Molly, we don't really know what we're talking about most of the time, but at least we know you're going to sound like it, but what's even better is that we know that you're going to bring some real goods here for us as you did in the last two shows. If you missed all the last time he was back on episode one 50 and then he came on on episode one 70 and we actually ran out of time talking about some of the things that you were talking about there. One of which was the FSMC formula, which we just hit on briefly. I don't think we can get deep enough into this kind of stuff. Everything after the click because most of the stuff that we do here at perpetual traffic is all about getting the click and what actually happens after the click is something that we don't touch on quite as much, but it's equally if not more important.
Speaker 3: (02:41)
Everything after the click, and we've talked about this a couple of times with Tanner Larsson in the eCommerce space and Oli's been on here twice talking about more service based businesses as well as information based businesses and he drives leads to his agency, which is an awesome agency in case you're interested in ever hiring email@example.com but today we're going to talk about the followup failure and that really means like why you're not monetizing the leads that come in the door through your Facebook ads as much as you probably should be. And the FSMC formula, we touched on that just a little bit, but today we're really going to break it down so you have some actionable steps to take away here to fully monetize those leads that you're gathering on, whether it's Facebook, Instagram, any of the other social media channels or Google or even YouTube. It doesn't really matter what the source is. There's still leads that come in the door that you want to monetize, not only quickly but over the long term. So, yeah, Oli, maybe you can sort of reintroduce us in this episode to what you refer to as the FSMC formula, exactly what it is and break it down a little bit more in detail.
Speaker 4: (03:52)
Yeah, sure thing. Well, frankly, just an apology. The FSMC formula not only is a bit of a tongue twister, but he's probably the worst marketing acronym that I could ever have come up with. And funnily, I was having this conversation with one of my team the other day who said, do you remember when you actually came up with that? And I said, I have no idea. And he said, well, it was about half an hour before you were just about to go on stage and you were kind of trying to explain to me to try and simplify the process of a marketing funnel and you are struggling. And then you just kind of came up with this thing called the FSMC formula and stuck it together on the slides and off you went on stage. And now we're four years later and we're still talking about the FSMC formula. It's amazing how these things get born sometimes. You know, sometimes it's better just to name something and then just name it because you end up overthinking it after the fact.
Speaker 4: (04:47)
Yeah, I think it definitely works and that's the most important thing and people do tend to remember it, which is good. And probably for those of you who maybe missed the last episode where we didn't kind of dig too much into it, I'll just kind of give a quick overview of the acronym that is the FSMC formula. So the F from FSMC is for the finish point and just like Stephen Covey says, you want to start with the end in mind. You want to figure out where you're actually trying to take people, what the actual ultimate conversion event from the campaign that you're actually launching. And even before you kind of start getting into running Facebook ads or YouTube or AdWords or anything else you want to start there. I mean this fame work is totally applicable to the advertising. It is to marketing and sales. So you know, what's your conversion event?
Speaker 4: (05:38)
Now, for some people that's going to be to a diagnostic call, a strategy session, some kind of consultation or appointment that happens over the phone. They need to have a conversation with somebody in order to be able to sell to them. That's their conversion event. That's where they're trying to take people to ultimately. So regardless of what kind of top of kind of activity or middle of funnel of activity that they're actually doing, the end goal is to try and get somebody to that point. Now of course there are some people who are listening to this who have more an autonomous conversion event where that finish point is that somebody buys a product or they buy something out that doesn't involve them having to speak to somebody. But generally most people fall into that having to speak to somebody or they're buying something. Or alternatively, the finish point is actually that they have to go and download something.
Speaker 4: (06:30)
You know, if you're doing any kind of information first marketing, which you should be. Of course if you're doing any kind of lead generation, then the finish point is that they actually go and download something. For example. It can be as simple as that, that then you know, you want to think of the FSM embassy formula is kind of stacking several campaigns together because most people sometimes make these funnels quite complicated and in most cases it's like Lego really, you're kind of building different blocks on each other and then once they have finished one campaign that can actually start another campaign, they can start the next part of their journey and that can be another FSMC formula that they go through. So it can be just as simple as that, you know? That's quite a good way of thinking about it. So we always start with the end in mind, where are we ultimately trying to take people?
Speaker 4: (07:20)
Now the ass is, where do they start? How do we get the party started? And you know, for some people that could be, if you're using like my phone funnel framework, that could be you having the lead opt in on Facebook for a lead ad and getting their phone number. That's where they're starting the journey. It could be that you've got conversion objective and you're driving people to a webinar to maybe register for a webinar. That's really where things are getting the party started, where you're capturing people's information, where you're driving people from and to, that's where they're coming to. That's the ass. Now. This is where the rubber meets the road with this is the M are the milestones and often this is where people kind of don't necessarily understand that there is a linear path that your leads will flow through and they will achieve each one of these milestones.
Speaker 4: (08:19)
They will complete each one of these milestones as they go through and so some people opt in for example, then they will need to click on the video. That is a milestone. Then once they have clicked to the video, they need to watch the video. So the next milestone is that they need to watch maybe a certain percentage of the video. Then once they've watched that video, then they need to click to them, watch the second video. Maybe it's a mini class where you're, you know, doing a series of videos and they need to go and watch the second video. Then once they watch second, they need to go and watch the third video. And then after the third video they need to go and schedule a call. And then after they've showed you to call, they need to show up to that call.
Speaker 4: (09:03)
And so you're kind of breaking this process down and figuring out really what's the path, what's the journey that they need to go on, what the milestones that they're going to go through on the way. And then the C is the contingencies. You know, what are the things that we need to put in place to actually get people back to these milestones? Because we all know that we're playing for people's attention these days. And I know that if you heard me speak about anything in the past, I'm a big component of multi-step, multimedia marketing. So using lots of media to be able to drive people back to certain parts in the funnel. Those milestones and whether that's with Manny chat, whether that's with tax, you know email obviously drives some behavior as well. It even remarketing, all of those things are prevalent in the contingencies to make sure we're taking people back to where we want them to be.
Speaker 3: (09:58)
So how do you map this all out? If you're really sort of thinking beginning with the end in mind, let's say I run a coaching business for example, or I sell high end coaching, which is a lot of folks that listen to the perpetual traffic podcast here. So take it back to specific steps. Where does Fs MC begin with it? You know, the finish line for them is obviously paying, right? Or is that the one, the step prior to them paying, but maybe take us back like with a specific example like that. Obviously that's what you do on your website. So, I mean an easy one for us to talk about.
Speaker 4: (10:32)
Yeah, sure. So you know, in most people's cases they need to know in that example that the people that are engaging with them are the right fit for them. And so there's a qualification process that you're trying to take people through. You're trying to learn more about them and whether or not what you've got to offer is actually going to work for them and whether or not your going to be able to ultimately get the result that they're looking for, the transformation that they're looking for. In order to do that, you need to find out more about them and you need to profile them before speaking to them. So really for me, the end goal would be to actually get people to shell a call with you. And obviously some people in that space certainly call those calls, different things. They can be strategy sessions, diagnostic calls, discovery calls as you know, different things.
Speaker 4: (11:19)
But it really, it's an appointment that sat where they have time that is scheduled date and time firewalled whether 30 minutes, 45 minutes for free, where you essentially take them through a process on that call to be able to learn more about them and find out where they are, where they want to try and get to and whether or not the gap between those two things is essentially what you actually offer and you can help them. Consulting, coaching, whatever it may be. And that's really the conversion event that we're trying to take people to. And really if I was looking at that particular business from a traffic standpoint, I'm not really that interested in the cost of a lead. In fact, it wouldn't be the metric or measurement that I would go to. And what I'm really looking at is that finish point. What's the metric on that conversion point there that we're trying to get people to do?
Speaker 4: (12:12)
So really how much does it actually cost me to generate one of those appointments? And obviously some people are gonna get, well that's quite straightforward. But what I would say to you is that the next measurement that we often look at in that type of businesses, what's the show up rate to that particular call? So that the actual cost of that scheduled call actually isn't the cost of just the traffic and how many people schedule a call. It's how many people show up to the call and then my next measurement beyond that is what's the close ratio on that call if there's some kind of incentive based pricing or offer on the actual call itself to take your services. So all be it. Yes, we're trying to get people to make a decision on that, call them and make a sale. Really getting clear on the finish point is really all about how many calls and what's the cost of those calls.
Speaker 4: (12:59)
Got it, got it. Makes sense. And then from getting the party started as far as like getting them into the funnel. Really you kind of got two options for those of you who have heard me speak about the phone funnel framework. Really that is our go to as far as driving quality qualified conversations from stone cold Facebook traffic. So you probably want to go back and listen to that if you haven't listened to it in the past. That's highly predicated on only targeting people on their mobile device in the first place and actually using email as a secondary modality and actually prioritizing mobile marketing cause we already know where we're focusing on their mobile device to target ads to. So as we put it, there's a congruence between the response mechanism and the delivery mechanism. So that deals with your mobile traffic, driving people towards with the phone funnel.
Speaker 4: (13:57)
But then of course the device of desktop. What do you do with those people? And so the start point for those people as another option would be an automated just in time webinar that people can go through cause they're more likely to, I don't know about you, but I've never ever watched a three hour webinar or a two hour webinar on my mobile phone in the past. So you know, doing this targeting people just on desktop through just in Thai webinar is fine. You may also want to play around with trying whether or not, and it's not massively, I mean I think that just targeting desktop and doing that, you know you will see some differences in terms of conversion costs compared to the phone funnel but it still works and there is still consumption of that. So that's really the start point. You've got those two options, you know, phone funnel or just in time webinar still work extremely well for that type of business. And at the end of that webinar you are giving them an opportunity to go and set up a call with you or set up an appointment with you, which is the whole point of that.
Speaker 3: (14:56)
Got it. So explain the difference between milestones and contingencies for people. And especially with regard to this particular funnel that we're talking about here at like which is which. So we don't get confused, but also there's a reason why they're labeled differently and the entire sales process to ultimately get them to convert.
Speaker 4: (15:14)
Yeah. So you mentioned the word journey earlier on in the conversation, and this is really the path that they're taking, the journey that they're going on when it comes to milestones and contingencies. So think about it that there is a road and there are essentially sign posts to make sure that you know where you're going, that you're still on the right track to get to the final destination of where you're going. You are driving down that road and you know, if you accidentally turn off then there are different signposts to get you back onto the road. And so you know, the milestones wrap presents the critical path that they need to take in order to be able to get to the goal that you want them to and the contingencies of the signpost, whether they deviate and they stop or they go off track some way to get them back on that most critical track so you can take them to where you want to be.
Speaker 3: (16:11)
Got it. So milestone one in this funnel example might be completing an online application, right? So that would be like their milestone. But if somebody doesn't actually complete the online application, then you would have contingencies in place that would push them back, such as SMS emails. Like how has that actually done? What's the best way to do it? And do you oftentimes do it with Facebook ads? And I think, you know, that's sort of a good question to kind of bring to this crowd. But I remember one thing that Frank Kern always said, and he said it a couple of times when he was on the podcast, you're expect people to not do the thing you want them to do. So you need contingencies in place for that very fact. Is that, yeah, I mean we kind of call this followup failure and not having these things set up can lead to you actually having a campaign that in isolation just doesn't work without the other factors around it. What I mean by that is, you know, say you have a webinar as the example we were talking about, you know that webinar as a whole funnel when the lead passes through the whole funnel end to end, and this is something that people don't understand. I just want to make this clear to you and it kind of twists people's brains is some people will make a decision whether or not their webinar funnel is actually working or not very quickly based upon the attendance and the number of people that then see the offer and the number of people that ultimately go to our finish point of scheduling a call or buying something, whether it's an automated program, very common right there, which isn't the right way to look at it, but very common. Go ahead.
Speaker 4: (17:51)
Yeah. But they don't actually wait for everybody to pass through the funnel to the end because if you add up all of the stats of you took it the longest path that it would take to flow from the front of them, seeing the ad registering and going through. If they don't look at the longest path that it would take them to a potential conversion, then it's very difficult to understand the actual effectiveness of that funnel working or not and attribute that back to the ad spend. So people often make a decision very quickly on whether or not something's working or not when actually they haven't really calculated how long it would be. At the longest point it would take for somebody to convert or not.
Speaker 3: (18:32)
Got it. So you know, looking at just one metric in isolation isn't really the way to look at this. It's all these different pieces. It's completion of a milestone. Making sure that you have contingencies at each milestone marker and looking at those metrics, not necessarily just, Oh, what's my show rate of, you know, 30% of my leads show up for my webinar, which isn't actually too bad, but then only you know, 30% of that 30% see my pitch, which is what most folks focus in on when in fact they can up their percentages for both of those very important metrics by taking care of milestones and contingencies. Is that really what you're, the truth is is that as I mentioned it in isolation, a lot of things don't work. So if you took the followup, the post webinar, follow up to some of those milestones away, you'd find that webinar would not be profitable. So without the followup, then it doesn't work. You add the followup back in and you're going to get a bumping conversion the same way as if you have a show up from maybe something like a live webinar. You'll always say an increase in show at prey. If you do some kind of indoctrination, some value videos before the event actually goes live. And so you know, if you took that out then of course the show up rate is not going to be as high and then all the numbers across the board are going to be less than they were before. So you have to kind of consider all of these things as a whole, some not just as one part of it.
Speaker 4: (20:04)
And also doing that calculation of what's the longest time that somebody could go through and finding out whether or not that that could actually be profitable or not. But I think what we're kind of hitting on is the, the concept of following up effectively is extremely important and it's not just about piling more traffic and it's about doing more with the leads that you already have. And that's a mistake that we see a lot of people make is that they, you know, I'm a big believer in simplifying a lot of the things that you do and there's nothing wrong with having one front end funnel, but then if you don't have a way to monetize those leads on the back end, if they don't convert, obviously only buy when they're ready. Not when you want to make a sale. So you know, maybe that wasn't for them.
Speaker 4: (20:52)
You've then got to think of the exit points out of here because there are only so many times that you can follow up with people with those contingencies if they don't reach those milestones. So when people actually exit, the question then becomes how do we then monetize that lead? Where do we take them? How do we know how much to follow up? How do we keep their attention? How do we build a relationship with them? How do we maintain a relationship with them? How do we then position new content and new offers to them that you know are going to work and how do we find out more about them to position messages to them that are going to be a value to them so that we can continue the conversation with them. And that's really where most people fall down because they don't really have a playbook beyond that initial FSMC formula that we've described. You know, it kind of just stops there. They didn't convert. They've got these people on their list and they're starting to go stay all they started to stagnate. What do you do then? And that's where people just simply don't know.
Speaker 3: (22:04)
So how do you map this out? Like I would imagine, I can see you on a whiteboard, actually, I just saw you on your whiteboard or your whiteboard was behind you before we started recording. But I can see you sort of mapping out, all right, here's where you want them to go. Here is X, you know, whether it's book, a coaching call or to purchase a product or whatever it happens to be. How do you sort of think backwards with the end in mind from the finish, from FSMC to the start all the way through to your milestones and your contingencies. Like this seems like to me, obviously you're a pretty scientific and a pretty smart guy, although you're probably gonna use that against me at some point in time. I will. I will, absolutely. Uh, obviously this is easy for somebody like you because you can sort of see where all the breakdowns are, where people won't do what you want them to do. How would you recommend people sort of mapping this out or figuring out, you know, what is my milestone one, two, three, four and for each one of those milestones, what contingencies am I going to have in place? Like what's the thought process when you put it together with your agency customers or your coaching customers or whoever it is that you're consulting on this? Like what's your general thought process?
Speaker 4: (23:11)
It's pretty simple actually. And you can get complex with it. I'm not saying that you can't, but it's as simple as this. You think of it like this. They do. We do if they don't. And so we kind of make three columns on a whiteboard and say they do this and if they do this, then we do that. And then the third column is if they don't, then this is what we do. And you know that seems almost oversimplification, but it really isn't because you know, we're all humans at the end of the day and when it comes down to automation, people don't really appreciate the tirade of you spamming them relentlessly with messages if they're just not interested. And that's one of the reasons why, you know, when we put this stuff together, that's one of the things that we have, you know, what we think about is what is the experience that we're taking people through here?
Speaker 4: (24:13)
What does it feel like as a potential lead? And I actually just want to hit on something which I think is important for people to understand is leads don't become customers. Prospects become customers. And you might be thinking, well okay, I've heard that expression before about who prospects actually are. But often that's in the terminology of like a sales team or a sales pipeline or that kind of stuff. But actually when you think about it, there are good leads and there are bad leads and there's good traffic and there's bad traffic sometimes and there's leads that then you are trying relentlessly to try and bring through those milestones with your followup and they're just not converting when actually what you really want to try and do is move as many people over to scale their attention to a point where they are showing an interest, they're engaging, they're consuming with things that then lead you to then be more dynamic in your messaging.
Speaker 4: (25:19)
So you can almost progressively profile people. And you know, a lot of the things I'm talking about here, you know a lot of heavy lifting is done for you when you know how to use marketing automation properly or if you know somebody that can mentor you or coach you or even give you a blueprint for how you put this stuff together. Because when you get it, you really get it and that means you're not going to communicate with people. You're not going to be sending messages out in a blanket way to everybody. It's going to kind of annoy people and get under the skin of people. You're following up with people in your there at the time when they are showing the most interest, when they're in the moment when they're engaging with you, and actually if they're not engaging with you actually start to back away in your communication.
Speaker 4: (26:10)
So we use like taking you back to school Ralph, like the Fibonacci sequence. So like Fibonacci sequence as a sequence of numbers that we use to put together our followup sequences. So when I'm saying, you know, they do, we do and if they don't do well in the sequences where basically backing yourself away until they re engage with us. So the Fibonacci numbers are the delay sequence numbers that we use to follow up with messages regardless of modality. And then when they actually re engage with one of those pieces of content, email or there's a click or there's a view of some description, we can then say, okay, when now taking them out of this unresponsive, we call the, we call it a non-progressive sequence. We have progressive and non-progressive sequences. And if they're not progressing, then the moment they engage, they then become more progressive.
Speaker 4: (27:13)
And so, you know, think of it this way, the easiest way for me to explain this to you is if you were watching a video series, people still use many classes and they still use video series. There are really an effective way of building relationships with people. And I know that you've done some of this in your agency and shared with some of the tactics with us of how you can actually do this inside of Facebook really well, but they still work outside of that extremely well, which is where they originated and in what would be a classic kind of product launch sequence. The mistake a lot of people make is they don't have progressive and non-progressive tracks. So what I mean by this whole followup shadier rule is they end up kind of not tracking the consumption and they're not tracking the engagement. So if somebody watches so much of a video, what does that tell you?
Speaker 4: (28:00)
That tells you if they do this then we then send them video to like immediately because we're not going to wait for them to wait another day because these people are in momentum. You know that in the moment and we want to take advantage. We want to capitalize on that attention that we've got because we know that that's becoming harder all the time and that's how you scale personal attention these days by dynamic clay changing the recent same frequency of the followup to match the intentions and the movements of people as they flow through your funnel. Now we've kind of gone a little bit advanced here cause we started high level and we've gone a little bit more into the weeds but hopefully it's helpful.
Speaker 3: (28:49)
The important answer there is just from a basic standpoint, if you look towards your end goal, which is your finish point, your start, which is the S and FSMC and then the two other components, milestones and contingencies. If you ask those three questions at every milestone, right, like they do, we do or if they don't like those are really basic questions to ask and then I think you're sitting around an I sort of picture this is definitely on a whiteboard with your team, like figuring all these sorts of things out, like where is the point of failure, but then also where is the point of acceleration if they do the certain thing to be able to scale attention and ultimately get people to convert and to buy. What kind of tools are you using here? Maybe that's beyond the scope of this show here, but still people would probably want to know the tools, like how do you do all this sort of thing. We can certainly mimic it on Facebook as much as possible. Even though a lot of these are really small audiences, sometimes that's sort of hard to get in front of people when you got super small custom audiences, but how do you do it? I assume it's through obviously email sequences. It's through SMS, it's through some automation software. Give us the goods on all those tools. Of the trade.
Speaker 4: (30:08)
Yeah, so I think probably the first thing that I should mention is that everything that I've said is kind of agnostic of any particular platform. I think most people listening to this probably use some form of marketing automation tool and you can absolutely take these concepts and make them work for you regardless of whatever you're using. For us, we use infusion soft and we really take it to another level I suppose as far as the things that we do as far as tracking behavioral things inside of these different funnels in order for them to perform to an optimum level, and it does just all transparency add some level of complexity and time to set it up. But in doing so, when you have the ability to act in those moments, when somebody is engaging and they're consuming your content, it's amazing to be able to really dial that lead to customer journey.
Speaker 4: (31:16)
You can shorten the lead to buyer journey and in a lot of cases that's one of the big things that we've often done a lot of work with people where there's, you know, they've got a lead to buy a time and obviously with running ads they've got a cashflow thing going on. You know they've got a fund in the ads and they've got to wait for a return on investment. If we can actually bring the lead to buy a time down from 21 days to 15 days, that can have a huge impact on a business's ability to spend more money to acquire customers. And that's really the big thing here. The hidden benefit behind this when you do it. So we use infusion soft and you know, we have a set of some proprietary stuff that we use and there's some stuff that you can get kind of off the shelf as integrations that supplement Infusionsoft and active campaign and Ontraport and all the other, you know, tools that are out there as well that work with this as well to measure some of these engagements.
Speaker 4: (32:15)
I think for me, what we're really doing here is, I won't forget that, you know, Dan Kennedy told me a story once that back in the day from a direct mail standpoint, you know, depending upon when people responded to mail order things, you know, there would be dependent upon where they were and what package that they were sent. They would actually have all of these of mailboxes that they would go to and they would like to pull out a very specific latter that go with that response based upon what you sent them. And it's because of when they responded that the author worlds, where they were and everything else. And it's no different. We're just leveraging new technology that's available to us now with the right knowhow can be extraordinarily powerful to scale attention and you know, still do it in a very human, I used way that gets the results really.
Speaker 3: (33:13)
Yeah. So the big goal here really is to be able to speed up the process to buying. And obviously you know a lead is not necessarily going to become a buyer right then and there anything that you can do to turn that lead or at least have some sort of dynamic engagement vehicles or at least some automation in place to turn those leads into potential prospects based upon how much they consume based upon how much they engage with you. It's like not all leads are created equally and I know that you do this inside your campaigns where you actually sort of force rank leads based upon their levels of engagement with you. And we touched on just a little bit here, but I think it's an important point because there are going to be certain people that are out there that are just going to want your free stuff and never buy from you and you shouldn't treat them the same as the ones that could potentially buy from you. But how you differentiate those two groupings are maybe the ones that are in the middle. How do you guys go about doing it? Is it automation once again or is it more of a basic concept that people can understand?
Speaker 4: (34:16)
Well, how about you? You got an interesting thing to share with you that one of the ways that we do that is with lead scoring, and I don't want to go too deep into necessarily like how you do that because there are some great ways that a lot of these things will do that natively with what you use, but I think what would somebody would get more value from is the way that we categorize it and we have a four stage scoring process for leads that come through. This is for every single lead and we call it seeding, growing ripe and fruit. And what that means is, is like seeding is where a lead comes into your funnel and they're new. They're new around here. They're not a re optin, meaning they're not already on your list. That's something to understand. They're not opting in, they're brand new, they're cold, they're a new subscriber, so they're seeding, they're in the category of seeding.
Speaker 4: (35:10)
Next thing is that they start opening emails. They may start watching videos, they may start clicking links, they may go through a set of communications that they're engaging with. That's when we start transitioning them to growing. And so now they've moved out of seeding and now they're growing. So they're kind of in motion. They're getting to know us, they get into the likers, they gained to trust us. That opening, that active, they're marketable and you know, we're collecting information on them. Then the next stage is that they are ripe. And what that means is they've got to a point where you know, they've consumed enough things to qualify themselves and that's a really big factor, qualifying themselves that this is somebody now who has intent behind what they're actually doing. And as you said, all leeds aren't created equal. So now that they're ripe, they're ready for the picking.
Speaker 4: (36:10)
And that means the final stage is that they become a fruit and a fruit is actually somebody in our CRM system who is like the hottest people, the people that have gravitated from being a mayor lead to now becoming a prospect. And as I said, don't get confused with a sales pipeline. Now people that we can actually spend more time on and even money and even resources to be able to reach out to because of that intent that they've shown going from planting to growing to ripe and now to fruit and just so happens that might be the person that we actually make a phone call to, to actually get a sale because we know they've got to that point now where it's worth as having that conversation. It may even be worth that. We have, you know, somebody internally inside of the business does some sort of manual outreach.
Speaker 4: (37:07)
A lo and behold, like something manual, something human to actually reach another human to have a conversation that just simply says, Hey, I notice that you've been around our stuff for a while. Just wondering how can we help? And it doesn't have to be anything more than that because you know the intention that they've had that you know what they've been through to now categorize themselves as somebody who is a fruit. So that is a really simple way of thinking about that lead scoring process without it getting too complicated of seeding, growing ripe and fruit. That's a good way of thinking about, I think you've got a future in either farming or like wine vineyard ING with that analogy there. I don't know what's going on in Stafford over there, but it doesn't look like you're doing much farming. But I love it because it totally makes sense and you don't want an employee or a full time employee or a sales person reaching out to somebody who's at just the growing stage yet it doesn't make sense. It's like proposing marriage too early or maybe on the second or third date kind of thing, but they've engaged in all your stuff and they're that sort of fourth stage where they are ripened fruit. They were ready for an outbound call to at least push them down the next step or ask them that question, which is such an important question and this is one that I think a lot of people sort of get tripped up on is like when I actually reach out to somebody I do, I do like a big sales pitch or do I, you know, start pitching them products at that point when they're sort of at that very high phase of with your content, all you really need to do is just ask them how you can help or you know, what's your biggest problem?
Speaker 3: (38:41)
Do you need help with that? Like that's probably the best question that there is in sales because you know, it's a leading question granted, but you wouldn't be able to ask that question if you didn't know all the data that you knew ahead of time that they were ready and there, you know, at that point where they're looking for a specific solution and lo and behold, because they've engaged in your stuff so much, they're ready for a solution that might just involve you.
Speaker 4: (39:07)
Yeah. I mean, imagine, you know, you've say got a list of 5,000 or 10,000 people or you know, I mean it could be a list of a thousand people quite frankly, and you could easily see those segments inside of your database right now. So if you wanted to send an email, if you wanted to send an offer, if you wanted to connect with people, if you wanted to send a text message, if you wanted to reach out to people, you could literally die, or your messaging exactly to those four segments of your database and know exactly the health of the greatest assets that any business has, which is their list. And so, you know, as we know, it's not about the size of your list, it's the relationship that you have with that list. Well, if you've got those segments set up, then you know how healthy you, you know what the hygiene of that list actually is as well. So, you know, it becomes a lot easier to be able to do that. And that's the reason quite honestly why we set up this progressive profiling of these people, why we put these sensors on these leads to be able to report back where these people are and I'm big on being able to understand that so we can spend our time developing those relationships and cultivating those relationships and as we know the cream will always rise to the top. Sure, definitely would. Well this has been awesome. I think it's a high level understanding of how you can better monetize the leads that come in through your Facebook ads. I think we're just going to assume that that's the case here on the show, but the point is is really sort of thinking about how you can segment and also not thinking about your leads all as the same and they all have different buying cycles. They all have different life cycles and as long as you've got some of the frameworks that you can talk about here on today's show in place, you can better segment them so you can really scale personal attention like you talk about here on the show. So this has been awesome man. Really appreciate you coming back on and I do think you have a future in farming by the way.
Speaker 4: (41:12)
Thank you Alice. That's good to know. I mean, I mean coming from somebody that drinks as much wine as you do, I can see why you may say you're around actually that's, yeah, normally, but no, this has been great. Where can people find you, Oli Billson? Where's the best place for them to contact you and social media sites, websites, you name it.
Speaker 4: (41:30)
Yeah, sure. Pretty simple. If you go to the next level, business.com and next level, business.com you can find out more about what we do and find out more about some of the things that we talked about here in this episode. That's awesome. And make sure you go back to perpetual traffic episodes one 50 and one 70 I think this is a good book end to especially one 70 where we talk about FSMC as well as a couple of different funnels that Oli has. Really, you're known for these things and it's amazing that we get to talk to you about them on the show here today, and I know you're speaking all around the world. You've got a couple of different places where people can reach out to you and you've got some coaching. You've also got a full blown agency, which we at tier 11 will oftentimes collaborate with you guys just because we know that your stuff makes our ads far more effective, so definitely check out Oli Billson or firstname.lastname@example.org they can reach you there as well for wanting full agency services. Correct. Oliver, billson.com Oliver billson.com there you go. Cool. Oliver billson.com this is episode one 79 of the perpetual traffic podcast. Really appreciate you coming on the show here today, Oli, and look forward to talking next week. Everybody see you.
Speaker 5: (42:49)
You've been listening to perpetual traffic. For more information and to get the resources mentioned in this episode, visit digitalmarketer.com forward slash podcast thank you for listening.